We’re ot going to get a clear picture on how we are going for a month or two imo. But what we do need to do is win games like last night when we aren’t playing to our potential, that makes a massive difference come the end of the year, as I say look at Wigan last year, they didn’t really start to shine until the second half of the season but they had won games playing poorly

interesting that Goudemand was seen as solid when he made 17M from 6 carries. He also made 26 tackles.

If we play the compare game (assuming Holroyd and McDonnell and gannon are fit and parcell doesn’t get a ban and hkr have everybody fit). They look like this

8. Sue
9. Litten
10. King
11. Hadley
12. Batchelor
13. Minichella

14. Parcell
15. Luckley
16. Whitbread
17. Tanginoa

We are

8. Mik
9. Ackers
10. Holroyd
11. McDonnell
12. Martin
13. Smith

14. O’Connor
15. Lisone
16. Sangare
17. Gannon

That is 10 players from a 17 and honestly I would pick possibly 2 out of that 10 from HKR over what we have.

So I just don’t get the comment. I think what you are trying to say (I will try and elucidate) is that you don’t like Smith, you don’t like his attitude, the way he sets his team up, the level of aggression he instills.

I will also go out in a limb and suggest you think we need bigger bodies, line bending props, big impact, rush défense and you want to see big hits and hard agressive play.

Won't happen Smith doesn't like aggressive players.

Yep, that’s kind of the point I was making. It isn’t the players that he, or you, don’t like. It is the coach.

So whatever we do, however we play, there will always be faults and they will be picked up. There will always be an issue, we win then don’t like how we play, we don’t win then we don’t win. We win and play well, our defence isn’t good enough, we concede too much down the middle and we need more aggression.

That Watts red card is an absolutely dreadful decision. We're on a slippery slope...

Agreed, a penalty and nothing more me. Also seemed like westerman was as at fault as watts so seemed a bit of pot luck.

Is that 4 reds and the same again in yellows in one round?

Complete tosh. If you mean doesn't like idiotic thuggish play as evidenced by Pele the other night, you're right. If you mean players who compete, like Goudemand and McDonnell, you are wrong. The sport doesn't have room for the "bonehead" anymore. Fans who hanker for them to return need to move on.

Disagree its a shoulder directly to the head, it’s a red card.

Same as micky macs in the cats game.

Similar to Mom last night for me, not a shoulder to the head but stepping across to shut the gap and cant get his arm wrapped around the ball carrier due to the supporting tackler. Hes made no play at the players head, very soft.