It was the Leeds CC semifinal where we smashed them and Shaul scored from 70 yards out, just one example of many where Shaul has a huge advantage in attack that Connor or simply doesn't have, it's swings and roundabouts. For all that Connor adds he also has his pitfalls, IMO I think on balance that Shaul is the better fullback, he offers equally in attack, just in a different way, but and again it's an opinion, I think he has the superior defence.

I just don't like that some are saying he can't do this or that because of his age or whatever, he's had a prop forward coaching him for 7 years whose idea of a winning formula was more smash bang wallop kick to the corner and rely on indivdual brilliance, if we have a coach who played in a skill position and can coach that (Lineham said it was a revelation been coached by BH after he'd left Hull) then you'd like to think that he (shaul) can take some of that going forward, even if it isn't at FB



This is just chatting about possibilities for Shaul and the club, if Shaul gets fit and we use him as interchange then that has a bearing on Johnstone, if Shaul is just a squad player going forward with him not getting regular first team games then does Shaul consider a move somewhere else?

I didn't say he didn't improve anyone, I said he didn't improve any of the skill positions and we lost youngsters coming through because of his way of coaching and attitude to signing players from outside the club more often than not as well as not using players correctly/to their strengths or in sides that were overall just poorly coached. Players who want to learn and have endeavour to succeed wil improve as they get older within a team environment, that doesn't mean that is all from the coach.



As for your last point, I understand that view, I personally would rather have Shaul as an interchange dummy half for now IF he can get fit and prove himself, the problem as I see it is that we have a great young FB in Wynn but Connor (unless injured) has that tied down, do we culture Wynn as the future at FB or, as we've seen in the recent past, he leaves to get a chance of first team experience elsewhere, it's just replicating what happened with Logan in many ways.

I don't think Shaul has ever recovered from the 'mistimed' tackle at Fev. He's not been the same since.

9 times out of 10 nonsense



For starters he's threw at least 3 inceptions that's led to try ( 1 which cost us a cup final place )



Remember him bombing 2 trys against catalan due to forward passes



Also he cost us the game at Wigan giving a daft penalty in front of the sticks with the game all level



Yet people always Ignore connors major errors for some strange reason and still think he's god to some

This thread is about Jamie, not Jake but please remember every player has a mistake in them and let's not forget how many pieces of individual brilliance he has created tries from.



Jamie is a great open field runner, he can pass but I think he's no longer our no. 1 fullback when everyone is fit.

I like others think he'd make a great running hooker akin to Daryl Clarke.

Mental scars can last a long time, it was an absolute 'car crash' of an impact (it wasn't a tackle), one that can and does end a career, the ref doing nothing pretty much led to how that game unfolded.

Not sure how much it afffected Shaul for similar scenarios since, but even if we don't consciously think about it in the moments leading up to similar, if it's in the back of your mind, you're more likely to change how you aproach that same scenario from a self preservation POV, even if the liklihood of it happening again is extremely unlikely.

Which is why I raise the point. It is my belief that it has been possible to see a change in his game, since that evening.

Can you point specifically to when this is noticeable and what exactly what we're loooking for?

Might be just me, but I think he is less direct when he takes and then returns the ball. He appears to me to be reluctant to run it in and dances across the line a lot. I realise he has had concussions as well which may affect his game.

Might that not be that in some circumstances he's looking for a gap to break through instead of just running into two/three defenders and in doing so not only loses any potential avenue but also because of his stature means he gets pushed back.



Could that actually be he's thinking more about finding the gap before going into contact as well as not wanting to be pushed/lifted back in the tackle losing ground.

The last few years we've not been pulling up any trees and the overall team performances have been at times diabolical, the overall impact of that can also influence how a player might perform, particularly if they feel under pressure from the coach or pressure from themselves due to their afiliation with the coach.



I understand what you're saying and it's something that can weigh on people's minds after traumatic events, but even the person who has had that event happen to them might not realise they've changed specifically because of that, or even admit to doing x or y differently. And correlation isn't causation, what I said above could also be valid.



either way, I hope he gets back to full fitness and can be allowed to prove himself in whatever position that might be, I think we've missed his explosiveness in open field play and his ability to track back for kicks quickly and get us on the front foot, something that Connor doesn't do, mostly because he ambles back for kicks and is never in a hurry to take the ball up.

Might that not be that in some circumstances he's looking for a gap to break through instead of just running into two/three defenders and in doing so not only loses any potential avenue but also because of his stature means he gets pushed back.



Could that actually be he's thinking more about finding the gap before going into contact as well as not wanting to be pushed/lifted back in the tackle losing ground



Possibly, but I think he does it more now than he used to.



[either way, I hope he gets back to full fitness and can be allowed to prove himself in whatever position that might be.



Me too

I agree.



To be fair most Full Backs return the ball by running across the line and looking for the gap. Not many have the strength to run hard and straight at the oncoming defence and risk being lifted back over the in-goal line.