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| Quote bonaire="bonaire"I have said many times on here that Shaul should be used now as a nine.No such thing now as a hooker since the rule changes and Shaul would be ideal in this position given his pace off the mark.
Would like to see him used off the bench primarily for Houghton.
You dont have to be a great ball distributor in this position.Its now more of a running game from acting half.
Houghton is hardly the best passer of a ball and needs to be interchanged otherwise we burn him out again.
Johnstone is not the answer at 9.He has no running game.
Shaul in my opinion will be our future nine'"
I've often had differing views to you but this is absolutely the right thing for Jamie. I recall watching him at the play the ball at Wakey, when he picked up the ball and went probably 60 metres before grounding in their end. His speed and agility would make him the perfect number 9. He doesn't need to be doing the number of tackles that Mint does and would offer a real offensive threat. Jake's doing too well for him to be moved elsewhere. | | |
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| Quote Hessle Roader="Hessle Roader"He doesn't need to be doing the number of tackles that Mint does.'"
... until teams start targeting him, then we'll see how good he is. | | | |
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| Quote Hessle Roader="Hessle Roader"I've often had differing views to you but this is absolutely the right thing for Jamie. I recall watching him at the play the ball at Wakey, when he picked up the ball and went probably 60 metres before grounding in their end. His speed and agility would make him the perfect number 9. He doesn't need to be doing the number of tackles that Mint does and would offer a real offensive threat. Jake's doing too well for him to be moved elsewhere.'"
I agree. There’s no and hard set rules were each position has to stand in the line during defence or attack.
There’s no set rules that the hooker needs to be at every ptb and make 50 tackles a match. Obviously tackling is important, but as several people have said on here, Danny’s and JJ passing from PTB is inconsistent, so there would be no impact there if Shaul evolved into the Hooker role in the future, even spelling with Danny initially. Jamie’s pace down the middle and scoots would bring an extra dimension to our game and at times could be used joining the line on the attack.
As I said, there’s no set rules saying where every player must stand at every stage of the game. Look at other sports, Pep has just won the title at Man City without a striker in most games. Even 10 years ago, people would have seen that as a mad idea.
If it comes off, I’d rather see Jamie doing it for Hull than at some other club. | | |
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| Quote ccs="ccs"... until teams start targeting him, then we'll see how good he is.'"
Tackling in todays game is normally done by three players.
You dont see Daryl Clark making 50 odd tackles per game.His game is based on running .
The role is changing.Look at HKR two very effective nines who are not known for their defence.
In any case Shaul can tackle but his speed off the mark and elusive running make him ideal in this position | | |
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| Quote bonaire="bonaire"Tackling in todays game is normally done by three players.
You dont see Daryl Clark making 50 odd tackles per game.His game is based on running .
The role is changing.Look at HKR two very effective nines who are not known for their defence.
In any case Shaul can tackle but his speed off the mark and elusive running make him ideal in this position'"
Mcshane, Clark and Roby average about 40 tackles a game. Parcel about 25-30.
Shaul is going to have to work his socks off in the middle.
He was criticised for his decision making at full back. I don't see it getting any better shifting him to 9.
Playing hooker is much more than scooting. I'd love to be proven wrong, but just can't see it.
I'd have him as wing/full back cover. He can still scoot from the wing, he'd help us with our exit sets for sure. | | | |
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| Quote bonaire="bonaire"Tackling in todays game is normally done by three players.
You dont see Daryl Clark making 50 odd tackles per game.His game is based on running .
The role is changing.Look at HKR two very effective nines who are not known for their defence.
In any case Shaul can tackle but his speed off the mark and elusive running make him ideal in this position'"
So what are these "missed tackles" we keep seeing in the stats? According to you they should never happen. | | |
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| Quote ccs="ccs"... until teams start targeting him, then we'll see how good he is.'"
So you're judging his ability to make tackles before he even has a chance to prove otherwise? We know Jamie can tackle, that's not in doubt, and if he can meet the attacker sooner because he has greater speed off the line, then he meets the attacker before they get a chance to get up a head of steam, this makes a significant difference as you would (or should) know.
And do teams target Houghton, or does Houghton position himself to make tackles? If we are using Shaul as an impact hooker does he need to be making the same number of tackles per minute/set that Houghton does, isn't his impact/speed meant to take workload off the forwards in attack (and making their forwards work harder defensively) such that they are a bit more rested for defensive duties, this is a symbiotic thing, just as DH ability to give forwards a break by making more tackles.
Whilst Danny is a fantastic tackler, this is 90% of his game, he does the amount of tackles because he rarely gets spelled and that has a detrimental impact on him and the team overall. Just because he can make 50-60 tackles in a game doesn't make that the most effective use of what he could potentially do. The more minutes/work making tackles he makes, the more detrimental effect on his ability, that's not his fault, that's simply fatigue, and from that increases chance of injury and later season fatigue. | | |
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| Quote BumpyMcbump="BumpyMcbump"So you're judging his ability to make tackles before he even has a chance to prove otherwise? '" No, just common sense.
Someone who has never played hooker in SL is an unknown quantity, if he can cope with being targeted, then he's proved himself.
Sorry it's been a short reply, just trying not to bore people to death. | | | |
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| Quote mwindass="mwindass"Mcshane, Clark and Roby average about 40 tackles a game. Parcel about 25-30.
Shaul is going to have to work his socks off in the middle.
He was criticised for his decision making at full back. I don't see it getting any better shifting him to 9.
Playing hooker is much more than scooting. I'd love to be proven wrong, but just can't see it.
I'd have him as wing/full back cover. He can still scoot from the wing, he'd help us with our exit sets for sure.'"
What was the criticism on decision making, you mean in attack in the final 20? Given he had Radford as a coach for the formative years of his Hull tenure is this really surprising?
Hodgson is a smart coach, one who played at the highest level in a skill position, Radford didn't, maybe, just maybe Shaul will learn something for any role he gets the chance at, if we get a rejuvenated Shaul with some added skills to his game then that's a big plus for the club.
If he doesn't progress or there's simply no role for him, he's a squad player, could he accept that, would he want to move somewhere were he'll get regular game time, that's what I'd be concerned about | | |
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| Quote ccs="ccs"No, just common sense.
Someone who has never played hooker in SL is an unknown quantity, if he can cope with being targeted, then he's proved himself.
Sorry it's been a short reply, just trying not to bore people to death.'"
I don't see your comment as being common sense though, you're pre judging, you've ignored that he's a good open field tackler and what he has been doing at FB and his main pluses are fairly aligned to being a dummy half, not all but some, hence why people have stated they think it could be a role for him going forward.
I think you and others are writing him off too soon. | | |
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| Quote BumpyMcbump="BumpyMcbump"What was the criticism on decision making, you mean in attack in the final 20? Given he had Radford as a coach for the formative years of his Hull tenure is this really surprising?
Hodgson is a smart coach, one who played at the highest level in a skill position, Radford didn't, maybe, just maybe Shaul will learn something for any role he gets the chance at, if we get a rejuvenated Shaul with some added skills to his game then that's a big plus for the club.
If he doesn't progress or there's simply no role for him, he's a squad player, could he accept that, would he want to move somewhere were he'll get regular game time, that's what I'd be concerned about'"
His decision making with ball in hand isn't good enough to be a top SL full back. I lost count the amount of times he took space away from the centre/winger and just died with the ball.
Connor on the other hand can pick a pass, and 9 times out of 10 picks the right option.
Shaul is 29 now. I don't think we can expect more than what he already offers. | | | |
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Quote mwindass="mwindass"His decision making with ball in hand isn't good enough to be a top SL full back. I lost count the amount of times he took space away from the centre/winger and just died with the ball.
Connor on the other hand can pick a pass, and 9 times out of 10 picks the right option.
Shaul is 29 now. I don't think we can expect more than what he already offers.'"
Shaul has consistently offered more in attack for what he does extremely well than any other FB in SL, what other FB in the last 8 years has been able to open defences with his electric off the mark pace and elusiveness in open play on a regular basis?
Would you not say that his inability to develop in the way you're stating is down to the coaches that have been around him for the 7 years (discounting this year obvs) since he broke into the first team? Radford was the assistant coach with Last doing his thing, Shaul had just 5 appearances IIRC when he played for us at wembley, Gentle was already on the way out according to some on here by the September and radford was running the show in all but name.
So Radford got hold of him at 21 and just look at how many players that have come through our system in skill positions that have flourished/progressed under his and last's tenure, that will be absolutely no-one. Shaul as well as Logan, Crooks, Abdull, Hadley even Lineham (though coming from West Yorks), all fallen by the wayside or not improved despite their crackerjack starts, not just because of the individuals themselves but because of bang average coaching.
Yes, Shaul is 29, and it's far harder to change things, but writing him off and saying he can't improve is not just premature, it's oh so predictable from some who are all ready to dump on players without even giving them a chance!
As for Connor, yes, he can pick the right pass most of the time (I'd say more 8/10 but whatever), yes he offers something in attack that Shaul will never have, Connor is never scoring this try in a million years https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/40763731 , that he can read things differenty to Shaul in those situations that we see as his strengths, I won't argue from that standpoint.
However, Shaul is by far the better defender, he backs up more, he can scoot away from dummy half or open field play that Connor could only dream about. Connor is lazy at FB when the ball is coming from a kick, has he ever made a single break from FB from a kick?
Both players have their strengths and weaknesses, I would like to see Shaul get a chance to go back to FB after having some time under BH, will that happen, probaby not, but discounting that he can improve in certain areas under a former international FB, and at the same time ignore that Connor has his flaws in attack and defence at FB, just as Shaul has but in different ways, is in my opinion shortsighted.
Let's support him after such a horrendous time with his injury, I hope he can get a place in the side, whether that be at FB, interchange hooker or utility choice on the bench. If he can't, or isn't able to get back to full fitness then we have no room for sentiment, until that time comes we be positive and give him as much as fans can do the support players deserve. |
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Quote mwindass="mwindass"His decision making with ball in hand isn't good enough to be a top SL full back. I lost count the amount of times he took space away from the centre/winger and just died with the ball.
Connor on the other hand can pick a pass, and 9 times out of 10 picks the right option.
Shaul is 29 now. I don't think we can expect more than what he already offers.'"
Shaul has consistently offered more in attack for what he does extremely well than any other FB in SL, what other FB in the last 8 years has been able to open defences with his electric off the mark pace and elusiveness in open play on a regular basis?
Would you not say that his inability to develop in the way you're stating is down to the coaches that have been around him for the 7 years (discounting this year obvs) since he broke into the first team? Radford was the assistant coach with Last doing his thing, Shaul had just 5 appearances IIRC when he played for us at wembley, Gentle was already on the way out according to some on here by the September and radford was running the show in all but name.
So Radford got hold of him at 21 and just look at how many players that have come through our system in skill positions that have flourished/progressed under his and last's tenure, that will be absolutely no-one. Shaul as well as Logan, Crooks, Abdull, Hadley even Lineham (though coming from West Yorks), all fallen by the wayside or not improved despite their crackerjack starts, not just because of the individuals themselves but because of bang average coaching.
Yes, Shaul is 29, and it's far harder to change things, but writing him off and saying he can't improve is not just premature, it's oh so predictable from some who are all ready to dump on players without even giving them a chance!
As for Connor, yes, he can pick the right pass most of the time (I'd say more 8/10 but whatever), yes he offers something in attack that Shaul will never have, Connor is never scoring this try in a million years https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/rugby-league/40763731 , that he can read things differenty to Shaul in those situations that we see as his strengths, I won't argue from that standpoint.
However, Shaul is by far the better defender, he backs up more, he can scoot away from dummy half or open field play that Connor could only dream about. Connor is lazy at FB when the ball is coming from a kick, has he ever made a single break from FB from a kick?
Both players have their strengths and weaknesses, I would like to see Shaul get a chance to go back to FB after having some time under BH, will that happen, probaby not, but discounting that he can improve in certain areas under a former international FB, and at the same time ignore that Connor has his flaws in attack and defence at FB, just as Shaul has but in different ways, is in my opinion shortsighted.
Let's support him after such a horrendous time with his injury, I hope he can get a place in the side, whether that be at FB, interchange hooker or utility choice on the bench. If he can't, or isn't able to get back to full fitness then we have no room for sentiment, until that time comes we be positive and give him as much as fans can do the support players deserve. | |
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