Gareth Hock was a rugby player.

KPP is an athlete.

Currently I wouldn’t mention KPP in the same breath as Hock.

I want KPP to succeed but he’s currently a forward with little aggression and minimal work rate. He can’t pass in the traditional sense. He can offload (not seen recently) but he can’t pass two handed.

Somebody may potentially get KKP to a good forward but in his final season with us Peet has work cut out.

I’d love the lad to have a great year but don’t see where it will come form.

Unless there are significant changes in his attitude or more worryingly maybe injuries he will get limited chances this season.

I hope the lad does well next year but at the moment he is very average championship level second rower. If Peet can enhance this then he’d be a real super coach.

I haven’t written KPP off but he isn’t a guy currently who you think will help us kick on.

I’d love him to prove me wrong but he can’t even offer effort to offset experience in the short term.

A major task for Peet this year is to drag KPP to the next level.

There was a thread on here, possibly before he had even played a competitive game, saying that he was world class.



How times change.

The cynic in me wonders if the opinions would be differert if he wasn't leaving next year....



Or even if he was a Wigan lad

The billing has always outweighed the talent and performances. I think his size, athleticism and the fact he’s not from the heartlands always had eyes on him and people willing a feel good story. He could well develop in to a top class forward and I do think he’ll be important for us this year but after seeing bits of Melbourne yesterday and Penrith/Brisbane today, his physicality will need to go up ten fold in the NRL. He’ll get battered about the place if not because he’ll have a target on him as an English player.

I was afraid when I posted what I did that it could turn into a KPP bashing and that isn't my intention

I'm saying he gas certain aspects to his game that don't suit our current situation.

And as it stands we need solidity on that right side, which he isn't all to blame for but is part of, and Isa can do a better job of for now.

Bateman, whatever people think comparing to the pre 2018 Bateman, gave us that with his hard work and experience and toughness on that side.



KPP can get worked over in that channel, and that adds to some other little areas of weakness (I like Cust but he can get caught on the outside shoulder as an example) and although no one.person is responsible it needs someone who has those attributes to connect them all together and make us thr best version we can be of ourselves.



KPP is like a Mago currently in that he can be a point of difference, someone who could change a game and that's how I'd use him for now.

There may be some of that but I think the concerns are all real. Maybe what is happening is that people are more willing to call them out because he is leaving (I don’t think the non Wiganer thing comes in to it, I actually think that’s brought goodwill).



I’ve commented plenty of times in the past across various forums that I think there’s a bit too much hype going on.

It may for some

But I can see what your trying to do, make out that were only saying these things because he's going or because he's not a Wiganner.



Well the same people who may have thought he was a world beater before he had 20 appearances under his belt may think like that but don't make out "All" wigan fans thought that, and are now subsequently bashing him.



He is a young lad who has some very good attributes, and a couple not so good.

He has plenty time to work on his game and will improve I'm sure, but for now IMO that's best from the bench

I don’t think it is KPP bashing, I think it’s just honest feedback. Nobody is saying he’s rubbish and get shut and I think most have him in their best 17 but in a different role to being an 80 minute starter. He’ll be important for us this season and in a role from the bench, I think he can unlock some defences. I just can’t get my head around him getting an England World Cup place as things stood at the time. He’s not at that level yet and I don’t think that helps as it just builds expectation.

Wasn't that my point?



I never once said "All" Wigan fans (using quotation marks seeing as you did too)



I also don't think its exclusive to Wigan fans. Some Saints fans loved James Bentley. Now he is at Leeds he is a "grub" "was never that good anyway" and is a dirty player yet at Saints "every successful team needs a player like that"



Stop looking for arguments when there isn't one to be had

Pretty sure he wouldn't have got the England shirt if Percival had been available, just showed the lack of depth at centre in the UK game that he got a run there, this season for us he's hopefully last resort in the three quarters.

Bags of potential but he really needs to start running his weight to make that 2nd row spot his for the rest of the season

This is what you originally posted





I tried to explain that "Some" will as like anything in life people have all kinds of opinions on all kind of subjects.



However



The cynic in you is wrong, as it wouldn’t be any different if he wasn't leaving or if he was a Wiganner



Because "All" Wigan fans don't think like that I.e. that he's a world beater and were only saying he's not because he's leaving etc.



Not trying to create an argument with yourself, I'm trying to say that your statement is wrong and the cynic in you is wrong because not "All" Wigan fans think the same.

Some may be seeing it for that reason (although jonh, myself, NK etc) aren't as their views have been pretty consistant we're KPP is concerned



Let's not divert the subject from the original view points (that others will disagree with).



KPP doesn't offer certain things we need (and at the start of the year I said may be the thing that separates Wigan/Saints When they hand the prizes out) .

We lack a bit of "Steel"/Mongrel/attitude/Solidity etc. without Bateman on that right side, Isa is our best option currently at providing that (whether he is a great option is another debate, currently imo he is our best option, although I'd like to consider Ellis at 1e and Smithies 2nd row maybe).