So we've already moved on from the trains being a monopoly, to train or bus now, therefore trains are no longer a monopoly. It's going to vary between networks, but even on the same line I have the choice between Virgin and London-Midland for a journey.

That's before we have even thought about walking, cycling (own or Boris-bike style hire), taxis, coach services, trams, driving (own car, hire car) car-share schemes, flying.

The railways are far from being a monopoly in the provision of transport.

Nice attempt to shift the goalposts.



Virgin (for instance) has a monopoly on the rail route from London to Manchester. No other companies run that route.



That is a monopoly.

You think Virgin have a monopoly on travel between London and Manchester? There no other ways to travel between London and Manchester, other than on a Virgin Train? erm......OK

Perhaps you could provide examples of where the state has run things more cost effectively and more efficiently than private enterprise?

Are you serious - I could get a train from London to Leeds and then a train from Leeds to Manchester - neither train is run by Virgin!!

There you go Mintball. Another option on how to travel between Manchester and London. So even someone with a bizarre train fetish, who could only travel by train, and who could not possibly consider any methods of travel other than trains, still has an option other than Virgin.

That's on top of all the other methods of travelling other than rail that anyone without a train fetish could use.

You said provision of food. I assumed by that you meant provision as in producing it not delivering it. As to delivery it is not delivered by a franchisee who has a monopoly on food distribution for 15 years.







There is only one provider of passenger rail services from Chester to London. Virgin trains at the moment. If I want to go to Manchester on the train I can only do so on an Arriva provided service. If you are trying to suggest I could use a bus/coach service to make the same journey's so that provides competition that is a rather ridiculous argument given the services are not comparable e.g there are far fewer coach services to Manchester than train services - National Express has one coach at 12:15 and the next is at 17:00 for example.

You would do that? Really?

Its hardly a serious alternative though is it ?



If the question is how do I travel from London to Manchester on a train, then as a customer I don't expect to be told that there are two options but one of them involves travelling in a different direction and then changing trains to correct.



I travelled from Leeds to Birmingham via train on Monday, it was booked by my company via the Virgin Trains web site and if there was even a smidgen of a chance that they could have got me onto one of their services then they would have done - they could for instance have booked me on a Trans-Peninie train to Manchester and then on a Virgin train to Birmingham, but they didn't because they aren't so stupid as to think that I would consider that to be an excellent way to travel when there is a monopoly of a franchise on the Leeds/Birmingham route operated by Cross Country, which is what Virgin booked me onto.

Semantics. The point being, it's essential, but we have no concerns whatsoever about it being in the hands of private enterprise, despite an earlier posters insistence that essential services are better in the hands of the gov.







Why is it "One provider of rail services" rather than "providers of transport services"

Why is it "If I want to....on the train" rather than "if I want to travel"



The railway service is not a monopoly on transport. There are many other ways to travel.

Why is the question "how do I travel from London to Manchester on a train" rather than "how do I travel from London to Manchester" ?

No most people who use public transport dont have a choice between a train or a bus, they have to use one or the other depending on their circumstances.

Has anybody said that the railways are a monopoly on transport provision? I think what people have said is that there is no choice as to which train company you can go with. Which is true when most people use trains as a method to go to a specific destination for a specific time. If there were 3/4 trains all leaving the same station at the same time going to the same destinations then people would have a choice of those different train companies, in the same way that I can choose to go to Tescos, Asda, Sainsburys or my local shop, because they're all open for the vast majority of the day. The situation with the trains is like saying that I still have a choice between going to Tescos, Asda, Sainsburys or my local shop even though Asda, Sainsburys & my local shop are only open from 3am-4am each day. Yes they're their but not a realistic choice.