|
 |
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17898 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote XBrettKennyX="XBrettKennyX"This is the bit that I agree with.
I am no bleeding heart liberal, jeez I have spoken out enough on the pathetic Human Rights Act and how it has fundamentally helped to weaken the Country, but this imo, is fundamental to the number one priority of a Nation State- to protect[u it's citizens[/u.'"
And haven't Australia been quiet about him...
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 36786 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | May 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote XBrettKennyX="XBrettKennyX"Well I am still none the wiser. There is nothing there that I can see that prevents say Romania from asking for the extradition of a UK national without presenting evidence.'"
There isn't. There are, however, conditions under which we could refuse such a request - that's why in the Assange case it went all the way to the Crown Court before it was approved.
There are also no countries that are exempted as you suggested in your post.
There are moves to review the system as some countries are using it for relatively trivial offences which it was never intended to cover. It's far from perfect but our police forces claim it's been of great assistance to them.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 36786 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | May 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"No, he shouldn’t, and I doubt the Swedish authorities would have bothered with the case had it not been Mr Assange who was accused. Hence the Swedish chief prosecutor saying "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape.'"
That decision was appealed and after due process was reversed. You can make all the claims of ulterior motives that you like, but the fact remains that a valid legal procedure was followed in both Sweden and the UK.
Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"This is just a straw man argument. I havent said he should be able to opt of a valid legal procedure, (which he hasn’t done by the way, he has simply used a separate legal protection which an independent democratic nation has bestowed on him to protect him from what they class as persecution'"
He opted out of a valid legal procedure when he skipped bail. And if you honestly think that Ecuador gives a fig about his human rights, freedom of speech, of freedom from persecution then you clearly haven't been following what they've been up to in their own country.
In any event, it's hardly a valid legal manoeuvre to apply for political asylum when you have not been subjected to political persecution, nor have been charged with a political crime, nor even be under direct threat of either.
Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"I asked would you be comfortable submitting yourself to this procedure. Would you be comfortable leaving your job, and home and life, to face accusations, that haven’t even been proved on a prima facie basis, which you believe you are innocent of, and you believe are vexatious, and travel to a country complicit in torture and rendition for an ally, the same ally which has held your source for 800 days without trial?'"
I wouldn't be comfortable having carried out the acts that his own defence lawyer says he has. And if he's that 'uncomfortable' with the idea of travelling to Sweden, why did he apply to live there permanently?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17898 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Kosh="Kosh"It's far from perfect but our police forces claim it's been of great assistance to them.'"
Indeed. Mrs 28 worked with the team that did these in Yorkshire and a number of offenders were returned here because of the EAW
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Kosh="Kosh"That decision was appealed and after due process was reversed. You can make all the claims of ulterior motives that you like, but the fact remains that a valid legal procedure was followed in both Sweden and the UK.'" Being legal, does not mean being right.
I don’t think anyone at all has argued about the legality of the action so im not sure why it is being brought up?
Quote KoshHe opted out of a valid legal procedure when he skipped bail. And if you honestly think that Ecuador gives a fig about his human rights, freedom of speech, of freedom from persecution then you clearly haven't been following what they've been up to in their own country.'" That decision went through due process and asylum was granted. You can make all the claims of ulterior motives that you like, but the fact remains that a valid legal procedure was followed in Ecuadaor, Sweden and the UK. If you think Sweden is an unimpeachable bastion of democratic process and a shining light of jurisprudence you clearly havent been following what they have been up to in their country.
Quote KoshIn any event, it's hardly a valid legal manoeuvre to apply for political asylum when you have not been subjected to political persecution, nor have been charged with a political crime, nor even be under direct threat of either.'" An independent democratic nation has decided, at the very highest levels that he is being persecuted, It is a valid legal option, and is in fact the only option he would have if the accusations are false and the prosecution vexatious.
Quote KoshI wouldn't be comfortable having carried out the acts that his own defence lawyer says he has. And if he's that 'uncomfortable' with the idea of travelling to Sweden, why did he apply to live there permanently?'" That’s another straw man. I can only ask you the question again would you be comfortable submitting yourself to this procedure. Would you be comfortable leaving your job, and home and life, to face accusations, that haven’t even been proved on a prima facie basis, which you believe you are innocent of, and you believe are vexatious, and travel to a country complicit in torture and rendition for an ally, the same ally which has held your source for 800 days without trial?
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Board Member | 6722 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2015 | Mar 2014 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Kosh="Kosh"[uThere isn't. [/uThere are, however, conditions under which we could refuse such a request - that's why in the Assange case it went all the way to the Crown Court before it was approved.
There are also no countries that are exempted as you suggested in your post.
There are moves to review the system as some countries are using it for relatively trivial offences which it was never intended to cover. It's far from perfect but our police forces claim it's been of great assistance to them.'"
And you are comfortable with this?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Club Owner | 17898 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"Would you be comfortable leaving your job, and home and life, to face accusations, that haven’t even been proved on a prima facie basis, which you believe you are innocent of, and you believe are vexatious, and travel to a country complicit in torture and rendition for an ally, the same ally which has held your source for 800 days without trial?'"
What job, home and life does he have in the UK/Ecuador at present?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14970 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Chris28="Chris28"What job, home and life does he have in the UK/Ecuador at present?'"
And that argument just boils down to he shouldn't have to go if he doesn't want to, which is a ridiculous way to run a criminal justice system.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Chris28="Chris28"What job, home and life does he have in the UK/Ecuador at present?'"
Well his job is running his website. His life is the things he does, and I don’t know what his address was.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2006 | 19 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Him="Him"And that argument just boils down to he shouldn't have to go if he doesn't want to, which is a ridiculous way to run a criminal justice system.'"
I don’t see what is ridiculous about not forcing an innocent man, who hasn’t had even a prima facie case put against him, to have his live disrupted and forced to travel t a country he doesn’t want to go to.
It would be entirely correct for the onus to be on the Swedish prosecutors to prove there was a case to be answered prior to forcing him to do anything
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14970 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jun 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Nov 2021 | Nov 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"I don’t see what is ridiculous about not forcing an innocent man, who hasn’t had even a prima facie case put against him, to have his live disrupted and forced to travel t a country he doesn’t want to go to.
It would be entirely correct for the onus to be on the Swedish prosecutors to prove there was a case to be answered prior to forcing him to do anything'"
There is a case to be answered, 2 women have accused him of rape and other sexual crimes. Whether he is guilty or not is irrelevant, that will be decided at any potential trial, but unless you think rape allegations shouldn't be investigated then there is most certainly a case to be answered. At the moment Assange refuses to answer it, and has broken the law to try and avoid answering that case.
Just because he doesn't want to go doesnt mean he shouldn't be extradited. And the political asylum is a ludicrous decision that interferes in the criminal justice system of this country.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
Moderator | 36786 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2003 | 22 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jan 2025 | May 2023 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
Moderator
|
| Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"Being legal, does not mean being right.
I don’t think anyone at all has argued about the legality of the action so im not sure why it is being brought up?'"
The intimation is that this is a purely political prosecution. My point is that if so, just about every layer of the Swedish justice system is apparently complicit.
Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"That decision went through due process and asylum was granted. You can make all the claims of ulterior motives that you like, but the fact remains that a valid legal procedure was followed in Ecuadaor, Sweden and the UK. If you think Sweden is an unimpeachable bastion of democratic process and a shining light of jurisprudence you clearly havent been following what they have been up to in their country.'"
How droll. Did you have a point you wanted to make?
Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"An independent democratic nation has decided, at the very highest levels that he is being persecuted, It is a valid legal option, and is in fact the only option he would have if the accusations are false and the prosecution vexatious.'"
Did you read the justification for the decision? They have NOT decided that he is being persecuted. They have decided that he [imight[/i be persecuted IF Sweden chose to expedite him to the USA. The basis of the asylum offer is that Sweden could not give them a categorical guarantee that they would not expedite him to the USA. A guarantee that it is impossible for ANY democratic government to provide.
Oh - and there are a number of experts on international law who question whether it was, in fact, a valid request.
Quote SmokeyTA="SmokeyTA"That’s another straw man. I can only ask you the question again would you be comfortable submitting yourself to this procedure. Would you be comfortable leaving your job, and home and life, to face accusations, that haven’t even been proved on a prima facie basis, which you believe you are innocent of, and you believe are vexatious, and travel to a country complicit in torture and rendition for an ally, the same ally which has held your source for 800 days without trial?'"
The problem with this question is that it presupposes that Assange's version of events is the truth.
|
|
|
 |
|