Quote Zoo Zoo Boom="Zoo Zoo Boom"I don't think I am - you could put the whole GDP of this country into the NHS and it still wouldn't be sufficient. Where do you stop - what is the correct funding level? Was the underfunding the route course of all these people getting Covid in hospital or a lack of simple cleanliness? It certainly wasn't due to a lack of staff or products as a big chunk of the staff weren't actually working. The NHS proved it couldn't function when the pressure ramped up it became the National Covid Service and it didn't do a great job of that - highest death rate in Europe, highest death rate per million population in the world. Who sent all the infected pensioners back to care homes etc. etc. The service needs a massive overhaul and as a population we need to decide what we actually want from a health service?'" Compared to other G7 countries our proportion of GDP spent on healthcare is quite low and actually fell between 2013 and 2017 (most recent figures I found). With an ageing population, I doubt continuing to spend less, as a % of GDP, is sustainable. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2019-08-29 I agree that some sort of national conversation about provision of healthcare would be valuable. However, the difficulty from my perspective is who would be framing it. There is no point engaging seriously with people you don’t trust, you just have to do what you can to resist.

Quote Zoo Zoo Boom="Zoo Zoo Boom"I don't think I am - you could put the whole GDP of this country into the NHS and it still wouldn't be sufficient. Where do you stop - what is the correct funding level? Was the underfunding the route course of all these people getting Covid in hospital or a lack of simple cleanliness? It certainly wasn't due to a lack of staff or products as a big chunk of the staff weren't actually working. The NHS proved it couldn't function when the pressure ramped up it became the National Covid Service and it didn't do a great job of that - highest death rate in Europe, highest death rate per million population in the world. Who sent all the infected pensioners back to care homes etc. etc. The service needs a massive overhaul and as a population we need to decide what we actually want from a health service?'" Compared to other G7 countries our proportion of GDP spent on healthcare is quite low and actually fell between 2013 and 2017 (most recent figures I found). With an ageing population, I doubt continuing to spend less, as a % of GDP, is sustainable. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 2019-08-29 I agree that some sort of national conversation about provision of healthcare would be valuable. However, the difficulty from my perspective is who would be framing it. There is no point engaging seriously with people you don’t trust, you just have to do what you can to resist.

What projects like building a new media facility, redecorating number 11 or building a bunker underground for those Photo opportunities by a tax payer funded photographer.

I guess you could add to the list the money wasted on buying PPE from favoured Tory friends or ignoring advice and developing a very expensive but failed Track and Trace app. The problem is our PM is good at wasting taxpayers money with his pet projects like the garden bridge and water cannons. He is especially good at lying and much like his mate Trump never admitting it.

Are you sure that it wouldn't have gone ahead or have you been listening to (and believing) another very iffy Tory minister.

You should take more note of his body language under questioning and see just ho often he looks down at the floor when answering questions.

I wouldn't trust him if he said today was Tuesday.



Was his large donation from the developer to the Tory coffers a coincidence

It was £10k - hardly huge - the developer himself said the project wasn't viable with the addition of a further £40m of cost.



Do you think the unions have an unhealthy influence over Labour? what's the difference or is OK for the unions but not for private investors?

The unions are made up of British working people. A number of the Tory donors are non UK tax payers, some are russian with links to Putin.

Of course the Unions have an influence over Labour and it's not always a good thing.

However, the current government looks grubby, with plenty of jobs for the boys, friends being awarded contracts and generally, a level of "sleaze" that hasn't been so blatantly open in ANY previous government.

It may well be that this is how things have always been but, NOBODY should be comfortable with the blatant abuse of power and blatant ignoring of the checks and balances that are in place to try and ensure that public money is spent "properly"

Completely agree with that.

The ordinary members have very little say in where their donations go its the fat cats like McClusky who decides which first growth claret he going to have that evening.

Tories can't claim any moral high ground about the way their party is funded.



Unions represent their members after all whereas firms like McKinsey, Deloitte, PWC, Serco, Capita etc are in it for the money.



From my viewpoint the NHS has done very well with the cards it was dealt. The deck was stacked against it before the pandemic began.



This isn't just about funding (where increases have been a fraction of what they ought to have been since 2010) but also about how it's set up. The Health and Social Care Act was a complete mess. A complete dog's breakfast. One wonders what they'll come up with in their next top down reorganisation, pardon me for not being optimistic. The Conservatives are responsible for funding the NHS over the past 11 years and how it is set up and how it operates, to blame the NHS itself for 100k dead and counting is missing the point.

We have a predominantly right wing media in the UK and sadly many people believe what they read in the gutter press without further research or challenge.



So, for your information, no union member is obliged to contribute to a union's political fund should they not wish to do so. They can opt in or opt out. The shareholders of political donating companies have no such right.

A very interesting report out today regarding the £37 BILLION spaffed away on the "world beating" test and trace system.

Pretty much zero value for money but, front line NHS workers have their pay rise cut from the 2.1% agreed (pre pandemic) in 2019 to a pitiful 1% now and this comes after perhaps THE most testing year that The NHS have ever experienced.

Let's have some context here of £37bn 80% of the costs relate to taking and processing of the actual tests - one day this week they did 1.5m tests a number unimaginable 12 months ago when testing capacity was 2,000/day.



So that leaves 7bn in development costs - is that such a huge number to develop the systems to manage volumes on such a huge scale - I don't know - how much has it cost to develop similar systems in say Germany. Maybe it is but its not the 37bn everyone is quoting.



Perhaps it is because the money has had to be spent on these rush projects that there isn't the money to increase wages all over the public sector. In reality what % of the NHS has actually increased its workload - I would suggest the vast majority have seen a significant decrease in their activity