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| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"The state as a body has a duty of care to its citizens to provide a form of justice that is appropriate to the ideals of the society - in this case it is OK for sanctioned killing if you believe like I do that execution is an appropriate form of justice for some crimes.'"
Do you have some form of objective argument on this?
Also, have you decided what the bar is for execution? How many does one have to kill, for instance? Is the manner of murder a factor?
All these things would be entirely subjective.
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| Quote Mintball="Mintball"All these things would be entirely subjective.'"
Everything would. Which is why they have 12 “good and lawful men” on a jury, to have their own 12 subjective viewpoints on something to give a "fair" outcome.
Quote Mintball="Mintball"Evidence from the US, in states where capital punishment was [ire[/i-introduced, suggest that the murder rate increased after the reintroduction.'"
Can you supply a link as I think your line may be slightly misleading.
The word "reintroduced" as you appear to have implied, would suggest it was reintroduced in to some states, when it wasn't. Capital Punishment was "suspended" between 1972-76. It came back into the states that had it anyway. It was not reintroduced as some form of measure as your line may imply.
What might be interesting data is the murder rate in the US between 72 and 76.
For what it's worth, I personally don't believe that capital punishment is a deterent as History shows with reference to death penalties in early 18th C England which then led to Transportation Acts instead.
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| If it doesn't deter people, or cost less, so why even consider capital punishment?
In any case, have you noticed when people tend to talk about this issue? It's normally after some heinous crime such as a school shooting or child killing (or in the case of the OP, someone who was less than honest  ). It's an emotive issue, I understand that. But the emotion we are talking about is hate. Pure hatred at those who commit such crimes. Hatred is not the way, vengeance can do no good.
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| Quote kirkstaller="kirkstaller"If it doesn't deter people, or cost less, so why even consider capital punishment?
In any case, have you noticed when people tend to talk about this issue? It's normally after some heinous crime such as a school shooting or child killing (or in the case of the OP, someone who was less than honest
). It's an emotive issue, I understand that. But the emotion we are talking about is hate. Pure hatred at those who commit such crimes. Hatred is not the way, vengeance can do no good.'"
Let's put that thought in a religious context.
Judaism had it's eye for an eye and still seems to via the Israeli government. It just causes strife.
Christianity was a refinement and turning the other cheek proved a successful stratagy.
Islam then saw the weakness in Christianity and its followers are content to take the sword to followers of other religions. Fortunately, the Christian world has tended to have been more advanced and powerful for a number of centuries now and has previously repelled the march of Islam. Followers of Islam are now embedded in many traditionally Christian countries, Islam is in one of its periodic expansionist phases, muddled Liberal thinking thinking pervades many European country's with ensuing moral decline, several Muslim countries are extremely rich. The net effects are likely to be the Islamic world taking advantage of the weaknesses in both Christianity and our moral decline.
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| Quote Mintball="Mintball"Do you have some form of objective argument on this?
Also, have you decided what the bar is for execution? How many does one have to kill, for instance? Is the manner of murder a factor?
All these things would be entirely subjective.'"
You would have to agree a certain type of crime - terrorism, ian huntley/Brady types on children, premeditated or repeated murder e.g. Rose West, Shipman the very serious types of murder.
I am not sure how much more objective I can be - I have stated my reasons what more do you want?
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| Quote Rock God X="Rock God X"It doesn't matter if we only execute one innocent man every 20 years, it's still too many.
The big difference between imprisonment and execution (as I'm sure you're aware) is that one is rather more permanent than the other. Obviously it's not 'ok' to lock up an innocent man, but they can at least be released/compensated if new evidence comes to light. A dead man doesn't get a second chance.'"
It is so unlikely that is more a theory than a reality - and as such should not be a game stopper IMO.
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| Quote Dally="Dally"Let's put that thought in a religious context.
Judaism had it's eye for an eye and still seems to via the Israeli government. It just causes strife.
Christianity was a refinement and turning the other cheek proved a successful stratagy.
Islam then saw the weakness in Christianity and its followers are content to take the sword to followers of other religions. Fortunately, the Christian world has tended to have been more advanced and powerful for a number of centuries now and has previously repelled the march of Islam. Followers of Islam are now embedded in many traditionally Christian countries, Islam is in one of its periodic expansionist phases, muddled Liberal thinking thinking pervades many European country's with ensuing moral decline, several Muslim countries are extremely rich. The net effects are likely to be the Islamic world taking advantage of the weaknesses in both Christianity and our moral decline.'"
Mostly accurate. Furthermore, experience shows that Muslims prefer to deal with things in-house rather than involve the state.
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| Quote kirkstaller="kirkstaller"Mostly accurate. Furthermore, experience shows that Muslims prefer to deal with things in-house rather than involve the state.'"
Are you agreeing that Islam will supersede Christianity?
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| Quote kirkstaller="kirkstaller"If it doesn't deter people, or cost less, so why even consider capital punishment?
In any case, have you noticed when people tend to talk about this issue? It's normally after some heinous crime such as a school shooting or child killing (or in the case of the OP, someone who was less than honest
). It's an emotive issue, I understand that. But the emotion we are talking about is hate. Pure hatred at those who commit such crimes. Hatred is not the way, vengeance can do no good.'"
Leviticus 20:9-16
King James Version (KJV)
9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Fair enough 
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| Quote Dally="Dally"Are you agreeing that Islam will supersede Christianity?'"
It is the wish of the liberal intelligentisia.
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| Quote Rooster Booster="Rooster Booster"Leviticus 20:9-16
King James Version (KJV)
'"
Is that from pre-Christian days?
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| Quote Rooster Booster="Rooster Booster"Leviticus 20:9-16
King James Version (KJV)
9 For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death: he hath cursed his father or his mother; his blood shall be upon him.
10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
11 And the man that lieth with his father's wife hath uncovered his father's nakedness: both of them shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
12 And if a man lie with his daughter in law, both of them shall surely be put to death: they have wrought confusion; their blood shall be upon them.
13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
15 And if a man lie with a beast, he shall surely be put to death: and ye shall slay the beast.
16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Fair enough
'"
Does every thread have to turn into this?
For the record, you are quoting Mosaic law.
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