What I'd definitely say about Currie, is that, just from his whole body language, he would be the last bloke I'd want to be alongside in the trenches.
If ever someone gives off the stench of going through the motions on a pitch, then it's him - it's no surprise that even now, as a senior player, whenever the captaincy role is discussed, he never gets a mention as a candidate.
I know there are footballers out there who say they don't actually like the game & only play it because they are decent at it & it earns them a living - I suspect Currie could be a RL equivalent of that from the vibe he gives off while playing.
And so you aim towards the sky, And you'll rise high today, Fly away, Far away, Far from pain....
Joined: Oct 06 2005 Posts: 2805 Location: Warrington
People talk about the 'culture' at Warrington and it's inferred there's some sort of drinking/bad behaviour issue - but it's more to do with the comfortable nature of some of the players IMO. Sweeping Currie and Ratchford out of the club altogether would be an excellent start to get things moving in the right direction. Alas we gave one a 3 year contract and the other is the current captain - madness.
Can’t help but find myself defending Currie again. He’s the latest scapegoat that fans seem to enjoy singling out.
Currie has his limitations, obviously. He’s not a hard hitting powerhouse. But he’s not meant to be. And as far as edge back rowers go, there aren’t many of them around.
If you compare Currie to his peers (rough examples, Farrell, McQueen, Watkins and Bell (needed a Saints example, and he plays more than the rest at present) he is remarkably comparable.
6 tries. Top is McQueen with 11, fewest is Bell with 3. 8 assists, top. (Alarmingly, more than Ratchford, Matautia and even Drinkwater…) fewest is Farrell with 1. 704 tackles, mid. Top is Farrell with 738, fewest Watkins with 690. Missed 49, second fewest. Fewest is Farrell with 34. Bell missed most, with 90. Meters made and average gain he doesn’t fair very well, second worst behind McQueen and Bell respectively. The best being Farrell and McQueen. Only bell has made fewer errors, 7 against Curries 10. He has given away the least penalties and made the second most offloads behind Watkins.
Are we using him right, absolutely not. He is a creative and dynamic back rower. But this notion that he doesn’t do anything and is a poor player is just plain wrong. That left side with Williams, Currie and Ashton should be the most dangerous edge in the league. We need an attacking centre in that spot, someone who can take the chances that will come that way and has pace.
While I agree he needs to be more impactful on the ball when the hard work needs doing, we went out and signed 6 prop forwards in 2 years. Only one of them routinely makes 100+ meters a game. If we’re levelling blame at people not doing their jobs, let’s start there. Because we’re not winning the line speed contest, we’re not battering teams into submission in defence. So if they’re not doing that, and they’re not making meters, what are they doing?
Barbed Wire wrote:Can’t help but find myself defending Currie again. He’s the latest scapegoat that fans seem to enjoy singling out.
Currie has his limitations, obviously. He’s not a hard hitting powerhouse. But he’s not meant to be. And as far as edge back rowers go, there aren’t many of them around.
If you compare Currie to his peers (rough examples, Farrell, McQueen, Watkins and Bell (needed a Saints example, and he plays more than the rest at present) he is remarkably comparable.
6 tries. Top is McQueen with 11, fewest is Bell with 3. 8 assists, top. (Alarmingly, more than Ratchford, Matautia and even Drinkwater…) fewest is Farrell with 1. 704 tackles, mid. Top is Farrell with 738, fewest Watkins with 690. Missed 49, second fewest. Fewest is Farrell with 34. Bell missed most, with 90. Meters made and average gain he doesn’t fair very well, second worst behind McQueen and Bell respectively. The best being Farrell and McQueen. Only bell has made fewer errors, 7 against Curries 10. He has given away the least penalties and made the second most offloads behind Watkins.
Are we using him right, absolutely not. He is a creative and dynamic back rower. But this notion that he doesn’t do anything and is a poor player is just plain wrong. That left side with Williams, Currie and Ashton should be the most dangerous edge in the league. We need an attacking centre in that spot, someone who can take the chances that will come that way and has pace.
While I agree he needs to be more impactful on the ball when the hard work needs doing, we went out and signed 6 prop forwards in 2 years. Only one of them routinely makes 100+ meters a game. If we’re levelling blame at people not doing their jobs, let’s start there. Because we’re not winning the line speed contest, we’re not battering teams into submission in defence. So if they’re not doing that, and they’re not making meters, what are they doing?
I'd agree with the majority of this but just playing Devils advocate.
Missed tackles is misleading you don't get pinged for the tackles you don't attempt just the ones you attempt but don't complete, so if you stay away your stat is good.
Assists this stat is so high because of the deficiency at centre and the fact the play tends to go to Williams and that edge. I think we have been better of late because they have been using Dufty in the right edge to make up for Drinkwaters deficiency.
I would love to see Hayes on the right and have genuine threat either side.
There was a post somewhere that talked about I think the 2011 side with now and who would make that team. I'd have lived to have seen a Briers/Williams half back pairing.
Bunkaib wrote:I'd agree with the majority of this but just playing Devils advocate.
Missed tackles is misleading you don't get pinged for the tackles you don't attempt just the ones you attempt but don't complete, so if you stay away your stat is good.
Assists this stat is so high because of the deficiency at centre and the fact the play tends to go to Williams and that edge. I think we have been better of late because they have been using Dufty in the right edge to make up for Drinkwaters deficiency.
I would love to see Hayes on the right and have genuine threat either side.
There was a post somewhere that talked about I think the 2011 side with now and who would make that team. I'd have lived to have seen a Briers/Williams half back pairing.
Are we really suggesting here that players are actively trying to avoid a tackle? If so, how is this not being picked up during the hours of analysis that gets done after every match? Currie has been consistently picked by Chambers, Powell, Price and Smith. He has been in representative squads lead by Wane and Bennett ranging from 2017 ish, through to this year. If there was any chance that he was actively missing tackles, or not making an attempt to tackle, how has this been missed by all of these coaches, not to mention investigated for match fixing. It’s just nonsense, complete nonsense.
On the assist rate, yes the lack of a centre may see him get more ball in those opportunities, but he has the skills to convert them. And not just ball in hand before the line, but we’ve seen offloads post contact, breaking the line and finding a pass for a try and almost added to that by what should have been a try on Friday when he chased the kick and batted back leading to the Walker chance.
When we play well, when the pack bend the line, we look at Williams, Dufty, Currie and Ashton. In that order. They are ones to get us in the backfield. There are shortcomings in this team, and lots of them, but they all stem from a gigantic pack being humbled time and again by people who want it more. We don’t have momentum starters, those who just get the nose through and win the ruck. Hill and Cooper were fantastic at that, late footwork at the line. But we cut them and replaced them with mannequins Goliath's. I’d go as far as taking a wager that Hill has made double the meters of Dudson this year.
Joined: Oct 06 2005 Posts: 2805 Location: Warrington
Barbed Wire wrote:Are we really suggesting here that players are actively trying to avoid a tackle? If so, how is this not being picked up during the hours of analysis that gets done after every match? Currie has been consistently picked by Chambers, Powell, Price and Smith. He has been in representative squads lead by Wane and Bennett ranging from 2017 ish, through to this year. If there was any chance that he was actively missing tackles, or not making an attempt to tackle, how has this been missed by all of these coaches, not to mention investigated for match fixing. It’s just nonsense, complete nonsense.
On the assist rate, yes the lack of a centre may see him get more ball in those opportunities, but he has the skills to convert them. And not just ball in hand before the line, but we’ve seen offloads post contact, breaking the line and finding a pass for a try and almost added to that by what should have been a try on Friday when he chased the kick and batted back leading to the Walker chance.
When we play well, when the pack bend the line, we look at Williams, Dufty, Currie and Ashton. In that order. They are ones to get us in the backfield. There are shortcomings in this team, and lots of them, but they all stem from a gigantic pack being humbled time and again by people who want it more. We don’t have momentum starters, those who just get the nose through and win the ruck. Hill and Cooper were fantastic at that, late footwork at the line. But we cut them and replaced them with mannequins Goliath's. I’d go as far as taking a wager that Hill has made double the meters of Dudson this year.
Barbed Wire wrote:Are we really suggesting here that players are actively trying to avoid a tackle? If so, how is this not being picked up during the hours of analysis that gets done after every match? Currie has been consistently picked by Chambers, Powell, Price and Smith. He has been in representative squads lead by Wane and Bennett ranging from 2017 ish, through to this year. If there was any chance that he was actively missing tackles, or not making an attempt to tackle, how has this been missed by all of these coaches, not to mention investigated for match fixing. It’s just nonsense, complete nonsense.
On the assist rate, yes the lack of a centre may see him get more ball in those opportunities, but he has the skills to convert them. And not just ball in hand before the line, but we’ve seen offloads post contact, breaking the line and finding a pass for a try and almost added to that by what should have been a try on Friday when he chased the kick and batted back leading to the Walker chance.
When we play well, when the pack bend the line, we look at Williams, Dufty, Currie and Ashton. In that order. They are ones to get us in the backfield. There are shortcomings in this team, and lots of them, but they all stem from a gigantic pack being humbled time and again by people who want it more. We don’t have momentum starters, those who just get the nose through and win the ruck. Hill and Cooper were fantastic at that, late footwork at the line. But we cut them and replaced them with mannequins Goliath's. I’d go as far as taking a wager that Hill has made double the meters of Dudson this year.
Take your point, he's not the most active defender, and deliberately missing may be a stretch but he doesn't look interested, in that part, which to me is fine if the other part of his game outweighs it. With coaches they will look at the strengths and weaknesses is Konrad Hurrell a great defender no but he gets picked in the best team in the omp for the past 4 years, also the time span you alluded too he had some injuries and its difficult to come back the same player.
Take your point that 2nd row isn't the biggest weakness, and sort of on the prop debate. Devils advocate again Vaughan I'd say is better than both Hill or Cooper certainly currently maybe the majority of the time. I think Mikaele is the sort of prop you describe certainly the start of the season but is start to show glimpses again. Dudson and Kasiano just not cut it.
If I was to list our main issues, 2nd row would be further down the list especially with Fitzgibbon coming next year.
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