knockersbumpMKII wrote:So no player from the academy to debut under Radford in the first XVII then, as I said, he doesn't develop players he just buys them in from outside the club and lets other coaches do the work. Sorry but he and the coaching team are hopeless at bringing through and developing our youngsters, Leeds, Wigan, Cas, even Wakefield are better off the top of my head. Two CC wins out of 12 trophies under his tenure isn't all that. You get giddy after two wins, Warrington had 3 in 4 and at least got to the GF, we've not even got there. Why, because when it mattered we folded, players were flogged and we had no developed youngsters to back up. All that despite being at full cap (over the cap in 2016 due to backloaded payments) despite a massive wedge thrown into the youth system that was already mature when Radford took over, we are as far away from being a top team as we've ever been and we won't progress under Radford anymore than we have. I stand by what I said that he's an okay coach but he isn't good at bringing through and developing youngsters and he still isn't good enough to take us to the next level.
Oh give it a loving rest you boring get. We just won.
Joined: Mar 14 2003 Posts: 25863 Location: Back in Hull.
knockersbumpMKII wrote:So no player from the academy to debut under Radford in the first XVII then, as I said, he doesn't develop players he just buys them in from outside the club and lets other coaches do the work. Sorry but he and the coaching team are hopeless at bringing through and developing our youngsters, Leeds, Wigan, Cas, even Wakefield are better off the top of my head. Two CC wins out of 12 trophies under his tenure isn't all that. You get giddy after two wins, Warrington had 3 in 4 and at least got to the GF, we've not even got there. Why, because when it mattered we folded, players were flogged and we had no developed youngsters to back up. All that despite being at full cap (over the cap in 2016 due to backloaded payments) despite a massive wedge thrown into the youth system that was already mature when Radford took over, we are as far away from being a top team as we've ever been and we won't progress under Radford anymore than we have. I stand by what I said that he's an okay coach but he isn't good at bringing through and developing youngsters and he still isn't good enough to take us to the next level.
Clearly it must be catching then So you can't produce one player that Radford has debuted in his stint that is a first XVII player that wasn't from outside of the club/already established? He inherited a fantastic crop of young players when he took over with an already fully established youth system in place, which one is good enough to be in our first XVII, look at our first pick players, not a single one is there. 4.5 years, 5 by the end of this season and not one player is good enough under his watch to be a starter, why, because all he does is bring players in from outside the club, hence we have only one player in the backs from within the club ONE!
As I said, the only player so far that looks like being in the XVII going forward is Fash, ONE player to debut in 5 years to make first XVII std is an indictment of how poor Radford and his team are at bringing through our youngsters.
If you don't know why this is a bad thing then you don't understand why teams like Leeds, Wigan etc are more successful than us and always will be and that our unsustainable salary cap (because we are always bringing players in from outside the club) bites us like last year and this (believe what you want about Watts but the disciplinary guff is cloak and mirrors)
Joined: Mar 14 2003 Posts: 25863 Location: Back in Hull.
knockersbumpMKII wrote:Clearly it must be catching then So you can't produce one player that Radford has debuted in his stint that is a first XVII player that wasn't from outside of the club/already established? He inherited a fantastic crop of young players when he took over with an already fully established youth system in place, which one is good enough to be in our first XVII, look at our first pick players, not a single one is there. 4.5 years, 5 by the end of this season and not one player is good enough under his watch to be a starter, why, because all he does is bring players in from outside the club, hence we have only one player in the backs from within the club ONE!
As I said, the only player so far that looks like being in the XVII going forward is Fash, ONE player to debut in 5 years to make first XVII std is an indictment of how poor Radford and his team are at bringing through our youngsters.
If you don't know why this is a bad thing then you don't understand why teams like Leeds, Wigan etc are more successful than us and always will be and that our unsustainable salary cap (because we are always bringing players in from outside the club) bites us like last year and this (believe what you want about Watts but the disciplinary guff is cloak and mirrors)
What players have Cas produced, don't ignore the question.
To answer your question Abdul, Fash, Lane and Masi
Turgut and Fash played about 20 games each last season.
Massively developed Hadley, Houghton, Bowden, Shaul (who Gentle wanted to release) and Watts.
Leeds, Saints and Wigan are the best at bringing players through, unfortunately previous owners and coaches have set us back, but it is finally working for us.
Radford and his team are doing a great job bringing those players through
Joined: Jan 30 2004 Posts: 8221 Location: Never never land away with the fairies
knockersbumpMKII wrote:He inherited a fantastic crop of young players when he took over with an already fully established youth system in place
Is this the fantastic youth system that was develop such a wealth of talent that we were bursting at the seams with them?
Apart from Cooke & Horne who have we as a club really produced of note pre Houghton? Hardly anyone in fairness, even post Houghton both Shaul & Lineham were disgarded under Gentle though to be fair I think was shafted by McRae in player signings etc. So the only players of note since Houghton have been with Radford involved
Even AP himself said the youth structure was poor and had been severely underfunded and he made significant investment in it. He also stayed if would take time to see any results due to this.
I was a big critic of Radford at the time but he has proven me wrong and I'm honest enough to admit that. One thing you can not fault Radford on is the youth and his faith in them.
The only clubs that you can safely say produce home grown players with consistent success are Leeds, Sts & Wigan and there's no surprise in why they are the most successful clubs.
I really enjoy long walks especially when they are taken by people I don't like!
knockersbumpMKII wrote:Clearly it must be catching then So you can't produce one player that Radford has debuted in his stint that is a first XVII player that wasn't from outside of the club/already established? He inherited a fantastic crop of young players when he took over with an already fully established youth system in place, which one is good enough to be in our first XVII, look at our first pick players, not a single one is there. 4.5 years, 5 by the end of this season and not one player is good enough under his watch to be a starter, why, because all he does is bring players in from outside the club, hence we have only one player in the backs from within the club ONE!
As I said, the only player so far that looks like being in the XVII going forward is Fash, ONE player to debut in 5 years to make first XVII std is an indictment of how poor Radford and his team are at bringing through our youngsters.
If you don't know why this is a bad thing then you don't understand why teams like Leeds, Wigan etc are more successful than us and always will be and that our unsustainable salary cap (because we are always bringing players in from outside the club) bites us like last year and this (believe what you want about Watts but the disciplinary guff is cloak and mirrors)
You really do talk garbage at times. Radford taking over came at the time of a weak academy which produced nobody of note for the previous years and those would be the ones who would be making their debuts as 20-21 year olds. However the likes of Bowden, Hadley and Green were hardly veterans when Radford inherited them and they are much better. Then you get a gap before the academy sorts itself out a bit and now we have Fash, Turgut, Matango and Logan starting to establish themselves, players in their early 20's. Look at Wigan & Leeds - apart from the odd exceptional talent this is the age most of their youngsters begin making appearances. Lane is still only 19 and getting a start. I think most people recognise that the Hull area isn't an abundant place for junior rugby, certainly its much worse than around Wigan and parts of West Yorkshire so the club is always going to struggle here in the short term.
And I don't get your love in with Fash. Now I love the commitment and passion he brings to the team but his small size puts a definite limit on how far he can go. The ones who can move the furthest ahead are those with the basic tools of size and strength. Any knowledgable coach (which you clearly aren't) would see more potential in the likes of Matongo, Turgut & Lane.
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