TrinityIHC wrote:This is where you get the point mixed up. We aren't being attacked in revenge for bombing. It's that our clumsy and ill thought out interventions have created power vacuums, poverty and misery in these areas, which make people in the area susceptible to extremists.
All they have to do is convince people with nothing to lose to fight for their cause, blame the west for all their woes and offer them a bit of security. Even easier for them in areas with such low levels of education.
No one is suggesting letting Isis roam around as they please, but cracking down on the overwhelmingly innocent muslim community in the UK (who reported the bomber to authorities several times) is not the answer. Integration is a 2 way street.
And this is exactly the nuance that people like Sal won't engage with; if you advocate doing anything other than all out war, you're pandering to terrorists and apologising for suicide bombers. The level of political debate in the UK is depressingly facile at times, thanks in large part to the right wing media, who have a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo.
Sal Paradise wrote:The GDP of the UK is bigger than 5 of the countries you mentioned combined. The UK has the 5/6th largest economy in the world it has influence inside or outside of the EU. It could be argued that it has great influence outside as the EU appears to spouting policies/agendas that suit the Germans and the French.
France has been targeted more than most by these attacks - their military intervention is nothing like that of the US influenced UK so that would indicate that its far more complex than us going into Iraq/Libya etc.
Perhaps if we hadn't opened our doors to all and sundry like the family of the Manchester bomber then perhaps these events might be more controllable?
Our GDP per capita is pathetic. The fact that GDP creeks up is meaningless of itself.
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
bren2k wrote:And this is exactly the nuance that people like Sal won't engage with; if you advocate doing anything other than all out war, you're pandering to terrorists and apologising for suicide bombers. The level of political debate in the UK is depressingly facile at times, thanks in large part to the right wing media, who have a vested interest in perpetuating the status quo.
So last few attacks in the country have been undertaken by British Muslims - does that suggest to you that integration is working?
What happened in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley and numerous other places does that suggest integration is really working - society has become even more polarised and that is just the fault of the indigenous population.
This is a society that gives the likes of Hamsa a voice and then we wonder why we get bombed!!
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
Dally wrote:Our GDP per capita is pathetic. The fact that GDP creeks up is meaningless of itself.
Very similar to Germany - I suppose they are pathetic too?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Sal Paradise wrote:So last few attacks in the country have been undertaken by British Muslims - does that suggest to you that integration is working?
What happened in Rochdale, Rotherham, Keighley and numerous other places does that suggest integration is really working - society has become even more polarised and that is just the fault of the indigenous population.
This is a society that gives the likes of Hamsa a voice and then we wonder why we get bombed!!
For years white males in positions of influence and authority have been abusing children on a scale far bigger than that of Rochdale or Rotherham. It doesn't matter what race or religion you are, these sick perverts exist in all walks of life and it is not confined to one group of people. Using those incidents to prove a point makes it a seriously flawed argument.
LifeLongHKRFan wrote:For years white males in positions of influence and authority have been abusing children on a scale far bigger than that of Rochdale or Rotherham. It doesn't matter what race or religion you are, these sick perverts exist in all walks of life and it is not confined to one group of people. Using those incidents to prove a point makes it a seriously flawed argument.
You'll ruin his anti muslim/immigrant story. Dont mention the Catholic church, you'll properly ruin him.
Joined: Jan 30 2005 Posts: 7152 Location: one day closer to death
wrencat1873 wrote:You'll ruin his anti muslim/immigrant story. Dont mention the Catholic church, you'll properly ruin him.
Oh please.
No-one has ever denied child abuse exists in many walks of life, but to stick your fingers in your ears wailing 'la la la' and pretending there ISN'T a specific cultural issue with gangs of Asian males targeting and grooming young white English girls is either naivety or stupidity of the highest order. In reality I suspect a brainwashed and blinkered leftist brain simply can't acknowledge or comprehend the unpleasant truth.
It's a typical leftist denial/apologist response - ironically PRECISELY the sort of attitude that led to so many of those girls' cries for help being ignored for so long, and part of the reason so many in this country are fed up to the back teeth with being told how flaming wonderful multiculturalism and mass immigration is.
LifeLongHKRFan wrote:For years white males in positions of influence and authority have been abusing children on a scale far bigger than that of Rochdale or Rotherham. It doesn't matter what race or religion you are, these sick perverts exist in all walks of life and it is not confined to one group of people. Using those incidents to prove a point makes it a seriously flawed argument.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17146 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
Cronus wrote:It's a typical leftist denial/apologist response - ironically PRECISELY the sort of attitude that led to so many of those girls' cries for help being ignored for so long, and part of the reason so many in this country are fed up to the back teeth with being told how flaming wonderful multiculturalism and mass immigration is.
Ergo it is typical right wing white middle aged male attitude that has permitted the likes of Jimmy Saville, Rolf Harris, Gary Glitter, as well as the church to get away with years of abuse.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 31932 Location: The Corridor of Uncertainty
France had colonies in north Africa and was a major part (with us) of the carving up of Iraq and Syria a 100 years ago and sewed the seeds of troubles there to this day. France also with us took part in the bombing of Libya to remove Gadaffi without a recovery plan that's worked out so well.
So France has done its share of foreign policy that has upset peoples in the arab world.
"If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.
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