Joined: Feb 20 2007 Posts: 10540 Location: Hunting Gopher
Mrs Barista wrote:You've changed "good" to "excellent" I see; interesting. And said we have a pattern of playing poorly after a good win. Look at our last 9 results and show me the high-low trajectory please.
Knockersbump made a valid point, IMO. For several years (at least back to Agar) we've had a habit of producing a good performance, getting complacent and following it up with a stinker, then reacting with another good one, rinse & repeat. 9 games is good, but still a pretty short sample in comparison to what went before (and even then, I don't think all 9 wins were what I would necessarily consider good performances). So he's right to hope that we don't go back to our long-established pattern and instead continue as we have been recently.
Be honest, if that point had been made by someone other than Knockersbump (or Sebasteeno), would you have latched onto it in the same way?
Joined: Jul 15 2005 Posts: 29816 Location: West Yorkshire
carl_spackler wrote:Knockersbump made a valid point, IMO. For several years (at least back to Agar) we've had a habit of producing a good performance, getting complacent and following it up with a stinker, then reacting with another good one, rinse & repeat. 9 games is good, but still a pretty short sample in comparison to what went before (and even then, I don't think all 9 wins were what I would necessarily consider good performances). So he's right to hope that we don't go back to our long-established pattern and instead continue as we have been recently.
Be honest, if that point had been made by someone other than Knockersbump (or Sebasteeno), would you have latched onto it in the same way?
I'm not sure I agree with the analysis. We had a good couple of games at the start of the season, were poor/dull consistently up to Good Friday and have been OK without being spectacular since. Last year we were consistently poor and apart from probably Widnes away I can't remember a standout performance to then fall away from. I didn't interpret the comment as referencing Agar's era tbh.
Joined: Feb 20 2007 Posts: 10540 Location: Hunting Gopher
Mrs Barista wrote:I'm not sure I agree with the analysis. We had a good couple of games at the start of the season, were poor/dull consistently up to Good Friday and have been OK without being spectacular since. Last year we were consistently poor and apart from probably Widnes away I can't remember a standout performance to then fall away from. I didn't interpret the comment as referencing Agar's era tbh.
Last year:
Played well against Bradford, disappointed the week after against Cas, then monumentally poor against Widnes. Reacted to the Widnes game with a very good performance against Salford (probably Miller's best game for us on his return), then atrocious in the cup game against them the week after. Responded again with a convincing win against Hudds, only to follow up with another disappointing derby performance. Then a pretty bad run with the Widnes game in the middle (and a half-decent fight against Wire), only to recover with a good win over Saints and follow that up with the Bradford shambles.
This year I agree it's been less prevalent and extreme, but there are still examples:
2 good opening games, then our trademark complacency sending the defence to pot against Salford. The Leeds capitulation reacted to with an ok stab at Wigan with both teams carrying injuries, then a win whilst playing poorly against Catalan. The Rovers debacle at Easter triggered a reaction at Saints, but then scrappy again against Widnes. Poor against Hudds, then this positive change.
It has been an undeniable trend over the last several years, so it was a fair point. Things are going well, it's great, but I don't think it's time to use the last 5 games or so as the accepted norm over several years of contrary evidence just yet.
Mrs Barista wrote:You haven't answered my question. You said we have a pattern of dropping off after good performances but provided no evidence of this oscillation in performance level. The reality is that we've been OK since Good Friday, barring a dullard effort against Huddersfield. Arguably the last four games have been our best group of performances of the season. How this supports an excellent-rubbish pattern hypothesis, I'm uncertain, but pray continue if you feel it affords you licence to trot out the tired old "years of ruin" lines. We've had 48 hours off, so it's overdue
See, now you're making yourself look silly, you might not agree with the analysis but it's there, just because we've had a revival of late doesn't indicate consistency in performance, aside from a couple of games we've being inconsistent/average or just downright poor/dog turd. The evidence is clearly there, it's why we've being discussing the poor performances over the last several seasons, last year and this particularly have been bad hence our final league position last year and our one from bottom earlier this, similarly under Agar as Carl-Spackler said. Let's look at this year shall we Decent win against Hudds, admittedly they were hugely underdone but we played well, followed with an okay performance against Warrington (indeed Warrington's consistency mirrors ours)
A poor performance against Salford then one decent half, followed by one of complete capitulation against Leeds. Bang average against Wigan, fans stating all over the forum how we should have won that as Wigan were pants but we didn't put in a 'performance'.
Then a good win against Cats, then an average performance against Cas Followed up with another capitulation performance against Rovers which had us spitting feathers, followed up by a great win at Saints despite their huge injury woes we still played excellently (which is massively inconsistent to how we played against Rovers!) A patchy win against a very weakened Widnes with a couple of great interceptions but not convincing in the performance at all, that's 95% of the fans viewpoint not just mine. I'll go on, Sheffield, totally unconvincing, hit our straps then went to pot and let them back in the game, a mid table championship side ffs. btw we only had Ellis and Westerman missing from our starting 13, the clubs report said we had a very strong side but again we were average. A dire performance against Hudds away, then another poor-average win against a massively weakened Salford, we took the spoils in the last 6 minutes and people all over the forum not happy with our 'performance'. Then we followed that up with the two best performances of the season thus far in Warrington away & Cas at home in the cup.
We then followed those games up with an undeniably frustrating loss to saints, we went back to form and made error after error after error and were bang average throughout, basically we could/should have won that but we didn't. And then to the Rovers game, bossed it, an excellent 'performance' despite making some simple errors that gifted them tries but we again showed what we are capable of.
Our season massively encapsulates a fluctuating performance level, your analysis/assessment of the season/individual games might be slightly different but as I said the evidence is clearly there but you are just too stubborn to accept it. It's your right to refuse to accept it but to continue on saying we have put in back to back performances consistently throughout this or the last few years then you make yourself look ridiculous.
Why not try to be objective for a change instead of showing your normal entrenched self and understand that my initial post was showing doubts but with hope that we don't, you just try to start arguments for the sake of it, in many peoples eyes that makes you a troll.
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