Joined: Feb 27 2002 Posts: 18060 Location: On the road
cod'ead wrote:Those defending Clarkson should ask themselves one question. Would you be happy working for a company that allowed their best salesman to verbally abuse and lamp colleagues, simply because he was their best salesman?
That is an interesting point - would you have fired Alex Ferguson when he lobbed a boot around the changing room that caught Beckham on the head? Ferguson verbally abused the players on a regular basis and I'm sure most SL coaches do the same - so do you fire them all?
Whilst its not very leftie but allowances need to be made for star performers. If you fired your best salesman he goes to a competitor takes a chunk of his customers with him and several people lose their jobs what is worse?
Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 17146 Location: Olicana - Home of 'Vark Slayer
Like Farage he's establishment through & through, but likes to give the impression he is the one speaking up for the oppressed.
“At last, a real, Tory budget,” Daily Mail 24/9/22 "It may be that the honourable gentleman doesn't like mixing with his own side … but we on this side have a more convivial, fraternal spirit." Jacob Rees-Mogg 21/10/21
A member of the Guardian-reading, tofu-eating wokerati.
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Sal Paradise wrote:That is an interesting point - would you have fired Alex Ferguson when he lobbed a boot around the changing room that caught Beckham on the head? Ferguson verbally abused the players on a regular basis and I'm sure most SL coaches do the same - so do you fire them all?
Whilst its not very leftie but allowances need to be made for star performers. If you fired your best salesman he goes to a competitor takes a chunk of his customers with him and several people lose their jobs what is worse?
Nonsense. There are no analogies between what Clarkson did and coaching a sports team. The boot throwing was hugely controversial at the time and in any case any coach who assaulted one of their staff to the extent the police are getting involved would be fired no matter how good they are. It therefore does not follow "....allowances need to be made for star performers." when they do as Clarkson did.
You simply cannot let anyone get away with things like that.
We all know "the luvvies" can be up their own backside and very demanding expecting subservience from all around in the same way we know sports coaches rant and rave but there are lines you can't cross whoever you are.
Oh and the idea a salesman who was fired for assault would have any clients to take anywhere is far fetched as well.
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
DaveO wrote:Nonsense. There are no analogies between what Clarkson did and coaching a sports team. The boot throwing was hugely controversial at the time and in any case any coach who assaulted one of their staff to the extent the police are getting involved would be fired no matter how good they are. It therefore does not follow "....allowances need to be made for star performers." when they do as Clarkson did.
You simply cannot let anyone get away with things like that.
We all know "the luvvies" can be up their own backside and very demanding expecting subservience from all around in the same way we know sports coaches rant and rave but there are lines you can't cross whoever you are.
Oh and the idea a salesman who was fired for assault would have any clients to take anywhere is far fetched as well.
I think you are writing complete and utter nonsense. I've read one manager's account that if a player took a liberty of sitting in his seat in the coach and not moving he'd have to smack the player or else the rest of the squad would never respect him again.
Craig Bellemy adores Bobby Robson because Craig was a complete idiot and took liberties with a coach he had an issue with. Craig loves Bobby because the coach wanted Bobby to smack Bellemy down but Robson just backed Bellemy. That coach was probably out of that club within a couple of months.
You simply cannot apply the morality of the changing room of pro sports with the outside world. I'm telling you, if you've never actually been an insider you don't know what the people are like when no one's watching.
In case people didn't get my reference to Frank Sinatra. I recently read the book by Kitty Kelley (not the best source I know). But Frank Sinatra was renowned for either doing the kicking, or getting his goons to do it, of people who he took a dislike to.
He smoothed things over by simply having his people throw money around to make the issue go away. He had massive and clear links with mob figures and was involved in political campaigns of Presidents.
He was under a morality contract. Like everyone else he just ignored it and slept with any woman he wanted.
Yet how many of the people on here will be saying goodbye to the world to My Way?
Lord God Jose Mourinho wrote:In case people didn't get my reference to Frank Sinatra. I recently read the book by Kitty Kelley (not the best source I know). But Frank Sinatra was renowned for either doing the kicking, or getting his goons to do it, of people who he took a dislike to.
He smoothed things over by simply having his people throw money around to make the issue go away. He had massive and clear links with mob figures and was involved in political campaigns of Presidents.
He was under a morality contract. Like everyone else he just ignored it and slept with any woman he wanted.
Yet how many of the people on here will be saying goodbye to the world to My Way?
Most of that is open and common knowledge and was when he was alive too, the main difference between then and now is the instant breaking of any news, access to that news from dozens of types of devices and sources, and a strange phenomenon of wanting to chop "heroes" off at the knees in a holier-then-thou attitude, something that the news media delight in doing but which was heavily controlled by the studios previously - the only reason that Kitty Kelley ever made a name for herself in the first place was that she didn't follow the rest of the pack in obeying the studio PR.
I've read her book on Sinatra incidentally and as a biography its pretty good especially of his early years - the fact that he went to extraordinary lengths to discredit it probably only lends more credence to it.
Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece ---------------------------------------------------------- Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork ---------------------------------------------------------- JerryChicken - The Blog ----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken wrote:Most of that is open and common knowledge and was when he was alive too, the main difference between then and now is the instant breaking of any news, access to that news from dozens of types of devices and sources, and a strange phenomenon of wanting to chop "heroes" off at the knees in a holier-then-thou attitude, something that the news media delight in doing but which was heavily controlled by the studios previously - the only reason that Kitty Kelley ever made a name for herself in the first place was that she didn't follow the rest of the pack in obeying the studio PR.
I've read her book on Sinatra incidentally and as a biography its pretty good especially of his early years - the fact that he went to extraordinary lengths to discredit it probably only lends more credence to it.
Jerry - You know the worst rumour about EH don't you? You know who I am, I think. I think you were at the same Headingley forum I was. LGJM is clearly not JS. I think you've made a dig at me over that very point. (Dodgy memory alert mainly because of my health right now, I may be getting people mixed up. My recollection of names is fried, everything else perfect IMO)
My first 5 incarnations weren't a way to hide who I was, they were pretty much my name. I absolutely wasn't trading on my source's name, I just didn't care enough to think too hard about a name. I have NEVER used what my source has told me about as a way to win arguments on here. I respect my source too much to do that. My source and I aren't even close. We are barely connected now and haven't been for years.
Having said all that. The access I have had to sport, along with my "unique" personality means I have a unique sporting and life viewpoint. I am a virtual asperger case with regard to people, but I'm kind of a Forest Gump of sniffing out BS, bias and the true story behind the headlines. I don't use Gump lightly. I don't feel unity with him. He was a great freak of fiction. But he just did was he wanted and was great. I kind of want to get what I want for the first time in my life and to hell with the consequences.
I really, really don't want to prove that. I would damage people I truly love. But with the way my life is going right now I think many people could get hurt.
I truly believe some good people HAVE been hurt by my actions in the last few days. I REALLY LIKE these people as well.
Just throw me an email and confirm you believe what I'm saying and I'm not totally nuts. I know I am being driven by illness. But I think I'm right and I think some people can see it too.
Throw me an email please. johnsenior1973@hotmail.com ask me anything. But don't make me think you want to hurt my source or the things I clearly love, I'll politely refuse.
JerryChicken wrote:Most of that is open and common knowledge and was when he was alive too, the main difference between then and now is the instant breaking of any news, access to that news from dozens of types of devices and sources, and a strange phenomenon of wanting to chop "heroes" off at the knees in a holier-then-thou attitude, something that the news media delight in doing but which was heavily controlled by the studios previously - the only reason that Kitty Kelley ever made a name for herself in the first place was that she didn't follow the rest of the pack in obeying the studio PR.
I've read her book on Sinatra incidentally and as a biography its pretty good especially of his early years - the fact that he went to extraordinary lengths to discredit it probably only lends more credence to it.
Jerry - You know the worst rumour about EH don't you? You know who I am, I think. I think you were at the same Headingley forum I was. LGJM is clearly not JS. I think you've made a dig at me over that very point. (Dodgy memory alert mainly because of my health right now, I may be getting people mixed up. My recollection of names is fried, everything else perfect IMO)
My first 5 incarnations weren't a way to hide who I was, they were pretty much my name. I absolutely wasn't trading on my source's name, I just didn't care enough to think too hard about a name. I have NEVER used what my source has told me about as a way to win arguments on here. I respect my source too much to do that. My source and I aren't even close. We are barely connected now and haven't been for years.
Having said all that. The access I have had to sport, along with my "unique" personality means I have a unique sporting and life viewpoint. I am a virtual asperger case with regard to people, but I'm kind of a Forest Gump of sniffing out BS, bias and the true story behind the headlines. I don't use Gump lightly. I don't feel unity with him. He was a great freak of fiction. But he just did was he wanted and was great. I kind of want to get what I want for the first time in my life and to hell with the consequences.
I really, really don't want to prove that. I would damage people I truly love. But with the way my life is going right now I think many people could get hurt.
I truly believe some good people HAVE been hurt by my actions in the last few days. I REALLY LIKE these people as well.
Just throw me an email and confirm you believe what I'm saying and I'm not totally nuts. I know I am being driven by illness. But I think I'm right and I think some people can see it too.
Throw me an email please. johnsenior1973@hotmail.com ask me anything. But don't make me think you want to hurt my source or the things I clearly love, I'll politely refuse.
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