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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:22 pm 
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Lord Elpers wrote:Why do you consider posts that disagree with you to be trolling?


I don't.

Lord Elpers wrote:In fact many of my posts have been to speak out against trolls and character assassins of those with politically opposite views. eg Mrs T, Andew Mitchell, the PM, George Osborne etc. I suppose you have never been guilty of that have you?


Many of your posts show a determination to avoid facts and, indeed, to rubbish points that others make because they're not convenient for your 'argument'.

Lord Elpers wrote:Assuming you have time to fit in work amongst in your many forum blogs - what you you do then?


My "many forum blogs"? :lol:

Y'see, that – as with your rather pathetic comments about Jerry's work life and your claims (which you cannot back up) that he only ever rubbishes one political party – is yet another perfect illustration of your continued lack of interest in facts.

Oh: and I'm a self-employed journalist, writer and photographer, and my 'order book' is rather nicely full.






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"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

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The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:47 pm 
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Chris28 wrote:Just out of interest, what RL team do you support Elpers?


Is it relevant 28?

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:12 pm 
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Lord Elpers wrote:"work online all day" Do you regard forums as work then?


When one of your businesses is based on them, yes, and I also have this uncanny knack of being able to browse one screen whilst working on another, I suppose thats how I came to be involved in this software mularky in the first place.


I haven't read anything else that you wrote.






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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:44 pm 
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Mintball wrote:I don't..


Then please give an example of my trolling to support your claim?

Mintball wrote:Many of your posts show a determination to avoid facts and, indeed, to rubbish points that others make because they're not convenient for your 'argument'..


Please give examples to support you claim? Your statement can be equally applied to you. If you read my posts you will see I do use facts and try to forensically form my arguments.

Mintball wrote:My "many forum blogs"? :lol: .
So you think 76 postings per week is not many?


Mintball wrote:Y'see, that – as with your rather pathetic comments about Jerry's work life and your claims (which you cannot back up) that he only ever rubbishes one political party – is yet another perfect illustration of your continued lack of interest in facts. .


The Chicken offered another poster, that he could provide links to prove his political even handedness. In the interests of "facts" I asked to see the links but the Chicken said he was too busy working and invited me to sift through his 2900 postings. I pointed out that 2900 in 6 months doesn't leave much time for work (his 100 add posting per week even beat your output)

Terms I used included "most" and majority and not as you state "he only ever rubbishes one politicall party". For someone who "claims" I avoid facts you have just given your own "illustration of a continued interest in facts" yourself.

JC has also failed to pruduce the evidence I requested to support some of his unsubstantiated political claims.

Mintball wrote:Oh: and I'm a self-employed journalist, writer and photographer, and my 'order book' is rather nicely full.


Well done. Do you get your material from forums?

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Lord Elpers wrote:Is it relevant 28?

Just interested






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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:56 am 
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Lord Elpers wrote:... So you think 76 postings per week is not many?


I think that you don't know the difference between a forum and a blog. :lol:

Lord Elpers wrote:The Chicken offered another poster, that he could provide links to prove his political even handedness. In the interests of "facts" I asked to see the links but the Chicken said he was too busy working and invited me to sift through his 2900 postings. I pointed out that 2900 in 6 months doesn't leave much time for work (his 100 add posting per week even beat your output)


If you're going to make claims, it's up to you to find the proof on which to base them. Don't expect others to run around at your beck and call to find the evidence for you. Do it yourself.

And as for the time it takes to make a post – goodness: what an incredibly silly little comment. Does it really take you hours to come up with a single contribution, meaning that you imagine that 100 (say) posts over seven days would leave 'little time for work' out of (say) a 35-hour week? Don't judge everyone else by your own sluggishness. :lol:

Mind, you're not even correct on that point. JC has been a member since July 2012 and has made 2,848 posts – that data is right under his avatar: you don't have to hunt for it. Let's make it simple and call that 18 months – thus 547 days (rounded down for ease), making it 5.20 posts a day or just 36.44 per week.

Lord Elpers wrote:JC has also failed to pruduce the evidence I requested to support some of his unsubstantiated political claims.


It's either there or it's not. If you're so interested, go and look for it.

Lord Elpers wrote:Well done. Do you get your material from forums?


Another crass, meaningless little comment, which also illustrates a lack of understanding of what my work entails. And you wonder why people consider you a troll. :lol:






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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:05 am 
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Mintball wrote:If you're going to make claims, it's up to you to find the proof on which to base them. Don't expect others to run around at your beck and call to find the evidence for you. Do it yourself.



:lol:

Ever heard of the expression 'practice what you preach'?

Mintball wrote: And you wonder why people consider you a troll. :lol:


'people' don't. Just you. The same as every other poster you disagree with. Time to take a look in the mirror at who is the real troll.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:36 am 
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Ajw71 wrote::lol:

Ever heard of the expression 'practice what you preach'?


Examples?

Or were you planning to go back to the Gidiot story, where you and your fellow Gidiot bum-lickers were priovided with the basis for the story, but stood there squealing like little brats that it wasn't enough? :lol:

Ajw71 wrote:'people' don't. Just you. The same as every other poster you disagree with. Time to take a look in the mirror at who is the real troll.


If you'd bothered to read assorted threads, you'd know that I am not the only poster here who considers Elpers to be a troll.

And to repeat: I do not call anyone a troll who I disagree with.

I suggest that you find some evidence to back that up. Indeed, perhaps you can find a poll?






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:24 am 
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There is an honest account of what happened on the night in question in todays Times (assuming that you subscribe) as stated by one of the fours officers on duty at the gate that night and who retired one month later as scheduled after 30 service.

The fact that he can only speak so openly having left the police force and the fact that he believes that the Police Federation hijacked something that should have been sorted out with a couple of conversations and an apology the next morning just about sums it all up for me.






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 Post subject: Re: Andrew Mitchell - Update
PostPosted: Thu Feb 13, 2014 8:33 am 
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JerryChicken wrote:There is an honest account of what happened on the night in question in todays Times (assuming that you subscribe) as stated by one of the fours officers on duty at the gate that night and who retired one month later as scheduled after 30 service.

The fact that he can only speak so openly having left the police force and the fact that he believes that the Police Federation hijacked something that should have been sorted out with a couple of conversations and an apology the next morning just about sums it all up for me.


You often use the word "honest" without any knowledge of whether in fact it is honest. Because this account was critical of the police federation (most reasonable observers are now equally critical) does not mean exPC Richardson's account is wholly accurate.

Consider:
'The Times carries an interview with Ian Richardson, one of the police officers manning the gates at Downing Street at the time of the incident with Andrew Mitchell back in September 2012. It bears the headline “Truth about Plebgate by Downing Street police officer”.

The Times headline and article are wrong. We will never know the truth about Plebgate. It is an affair that boils down to the accounts of two men. PC Toby Rowlands, who claims Andrew Mitchell called the police f–––––– plebs” and the former chief whip himself, who denies it. There is no definitive evidence to categorically support or rebut either man’s case. All that really matters is who you believe.

Ian Richardson believes Toby Rowlands. According to the Times, “Mr Richardson, 50, who has retired from the Metropolitan Police, said he believed that Mr Mitchell called the officers “f–––––– plebs” as claimed by one of his colleagues in the original police log”.

Unfortunately, as with just about every other account of what happened that evening, Mr Richardson’s version of events – or at least his version as reported in the Times – does not quite tally with the facts. Indeed, his story does not even remain consistent with itself.

The first thing to note is that Ian Richardson claims he did not hear Andrew Mitchell call anyone anything. The Times is very clear on that. “He did not hear the exchange but said that PC Toby Rowland immediately recounted the contentious phrases”, they report. Andrew Mitchell was supposedly verbally abusing a police officer with such ferocity he was threatened with arrest. But his colleague, a few yards away, heard nothing.

Actually that’s not true. The Times, and Mr Richardson’s log of the account, say he heard nothing. But Richardson himself then contradicts himself and claims “he did hear PC Rowland say 'Please don’t swear at me'. In his log he says he didn’t hear the conversation between Andrew Mitchell and PC Toby Rowlands. In the Times he said he heard some of it. In his statement to the Times he said he was unable to hear Andrew Mitchell swearing “Best learn your f–––––– place … you lot don’t run this f–––––– government … You’re f–––––– plebs”. But he claims he was able to hear his colleague calmly admonishing Mr Mitchell with the words “please don’t swear at me”.

But again, what was said, and what was heard, is ultimately a matter for conjecture. There is no audio record.

But there is a video record. And it is crystal clear. According to the Times, Mr Richardson said that as the altercation (which he claimed not to have heard) was under way, “[he] walked over to see what was happening. As he arrived, Mr Mitchell was already pushing his bicycle along the path to the exit gate. “What happened there?” Mr Richardson asked his colleague. He says PC Rowland immediately recounted the version of the exchange "from which he has never wavered”.

As I type, there is video footage of the entire incident sitting on various sites on the internet. It shows Andrew Mitchell as he pushes his bike along the path towards the exit gate. Mr Richardson does not arrive before he reaches the gate. He does not stop and ask “what happened here”. PC Rowlands does not stop, turn to his colleague and immediately recount his version of what happened.

This is the problem with Plebgate. Time and time and time again we have seen police officers give statements about what supposedly happened. And time and time and time again those statements have been shown to be inconsistent with the facts.

So we had PC Keith Wallis’s statement that he had been at the gates of Downing Street and witnessed the entire incident. It wasn’t true. We had the statement of three members of the Police Federation who met Andrew Mitchell and said he had refused to tell them what he had said to PC Rowland at the gates of Downing Street. It wasn’t true. We had what purported to be PC Rowlands log of the incident at Downing Street, which talked of members of the public being “visibly shocked” by the altercation. Even though on the video there are no “shocked” members of the public to be seen, and his own colleagues who were present claim not to have heard a word of the alleged abuse.

In fact there is only one person, throughout the course of this whole affair, whose statements about what happened that evening have not been contradicted by any of the independent evidence. And that is Andrew Mitchell himself.'

Source:The Telgraph

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