FORUMS FORUMS






RLFANS.COM
Celebrating
25 years service to
the Rugby League
Community!

  

Home The Sin Bin Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1031 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 ... 104  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:38 pm 
Player Coach
Player Coach
User avatar

Joined: Aug 14 2005
Posts: 14302
Location: On the Death Star Awaiting Luke.
So this has turned into a massive bun fight over her.
I'm sure it what she would have wanted as she liked a good scrap.






If you only knew the POWER of the dark side.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:41 pm 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: May 25 2002
Posts: 37704
Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Lord Elpers wrote:
If you were an illegal flying picket you certainly didn't work the whole year. You were skiving or on strike. What a sad thing to boast about! I now understand why Mrs Thatcher's victorys over the bad guys has left you so bitter and twisted.


I did nothing illegal, secondary picketing wasn't unlawful in 1979. During the January 1979 strike I was putting in 16 hour shifts: eight hours organising at Bevin House, Hull and eight hours on the cobbles, preventing scab drivers from trying to undermine the principles of the strike.

I was the shop steward in our haulage company and because I was the only one who didn't have children, I was the only one to work between Christmas and New Year. When I got back to the yard on 30 December 1978, I noticed that all of the other trucks had been de-licensed. A few phone calls confirmed that all the other companies had done the same. The employers knew that our mass-meeting on 2 January 1979 would result in an immediate strike vote and sought to minimise their costs. Can't blame them for that.

After the strike was called I was co-opted onto the strike committee and our MD was on the employers' committee. We spoke most days on how things were going and even devised a way of bringing the dispute to an early end. Unfortunately most of the employers refused to even consider the resolution. During the time of the strike I proposed we allow any trucks carrying food (human and animal) be allowed free movement, this was approved by the rest of the strike committee, similarly those companies engaged in fuel supplies (coal, LPG & oil) were also given dispensation. The flying pickets were needed because too many unscrupulous companies and the scab-labour drivers they employed tried to use the dispensations to engage in general haulage. Quite simply, if they'd played by the agreed rules, there'd have been no need for flying pickets.

We finally settled for our full demand, three weeks after the dispute could've been resolved if it wasn't for the initial intransigence of the employers. They were the ones who caused the protraction and in the end paid a very expensive price. It's easy to lay the blame for all this country's previous labour problems at the feet of the workers. It's made even easier when an established media tend to present only one side of the story but the fact that they are esteablished means they are an integral part of the establishment and it is their best interests to portray the "plebs" as the problem.

German and French labour forces have always been heavily unionised, the difference between their industries and ours can mostly be placed at the feet of the management styles. Continental companies have always seen their workers as an asset, most British companies saw them as a cost-base at best, usually as a liability.

Post WW2 we helped rebuild Germany & Japan and both countries actively embraced the industrial management principles of W Edwards Deming, what a great pity our own industrial magnates refused to adopt the same principles here.

I'm still waiting for evidence of the power cuts and water & gas shortages prior to Thatcher BTW






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:46 am 
International Chairman
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2002
Posts: 18060
Location: On the road
El Barbudo wrote:There are a number of people who agree with you about those industries and, to be fair, they have a point.
But their point is blunted when the same people start moaning that the unemployed should be made to work for their dole.
Inconsistency is so easy.


There is no inconsistency here, not sure how you equate running huge loss making industries to participation in social projects.






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:52 am 
International Chairman
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2002
Posts: 18060
Location: On the road
cod'ead wrote:I did nothing illegal, secondary picketing wasn't unlawful in 1979. During the January 1979 strike I was putting in 16 hour shifts: eight hours organising at Bevin House, Hull and eight hours on the cobbles, preventing scab drivers from trying to undermine the principles of the strike.

I was the shop steward in our haulage company and because I was the only one who didn't have children, I was the only one to work between Christmas and New Year. When I got back to the yard on 30 December 1978, I noticed that all of the other trucks had been de-licensed. A few phone calls confirmed that all the other companies had done the same. The employers knew that our mass-meeting on 2 January 1979 would result in an immediate strike vote and sought to minimise their costs. Can't blame them for that.

After the strike was called I was co-opted onto the strike committee and our MD was on the employers' committee. We spoke most days on how things were going and even devised a way of bringing the dispute to an early end. Unfortunately most of the employers refused to even consider the resolution. During the time of the strike I proposed we allow any trucks carrying food (human and animal) be allowed free movement, this was approved by the rest of the strike committee, similarly those companies engaged in fuel supplies (coal, LPG & oil) were also given dispensation. The flying pickets were needed because too many unscrupulous companies and the scab-labour drivers they employed tried to use the dispensations to engage in general haulage. Quite simply, if they'd played by the agreed rules, there'd have been no need for flying pickets.

We finally settled for our full demand, three weeks after the dispute could've been resolved if it wasn't for the initial intransigence of the employers. They were the ones who caused the protraction and in the end paid a very expensive price. It's easy to lay the blame for all this country's previous labour problems at the feet of the workers. It's made even easier when an established media tend to present only one side of the story but the fact that they are esteablished means they are an integral part of the establishment and it is their best interests to portray the "plebs" as the problem.

German and French labour forces have always been heavily unionised, the difference between their industries and ours can mostly be placed at the feet of the management styles. Continental companies have always seen their workers as an asset, most British companies saw them as a cost-base at best, usually as a liability.

Post WW2 we helped rebuild Germany & Japan and both countries actively embraced the industrial management principles of W Edwards Deming, what a great pity our own industrial magnates refused to adopt the same principles here.

I'm still waiting for evidence of the power cuts and water & gas shortages prior to Thatcher BTW


The term scab is pretty emotive - so anyone who disagrees with the majority is a scab - surely the failure is your inability to convince them of the merits of your argument? To stop normal people not involved in disputes from carrying out their daily business is abhorrent.






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:10 am 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
Dally wrote:So Mrs Thatcher did not kill of British manufacturing did she?

Governments ill-advisedly had been propping up failed private business by nationalising them to avoid mass unemployment. But it was just a wasteful use of resources and wholly unsustainable. when you look back it is frankly farcical that British Leyland (and, although not manufacruring) BRS were supported by public money. What thanks did the government public get? Unions always striking because governments had signalled they were too big too fail. All nationalisation of these dead ducks did was prolong the agony and tie up resources preventing the evolution of new more viable businesses.

As I said, Mrs Thatcher did not destroy British manufacturing - certain sectors did well and grew, others failed because they produced obsolete goods, poor goods or goods too expensively.



So you agree with my post then ?






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:15 am 
International Chairman
International Chairman
User avatar

Joined: May 25 2002
Posts: 37704
Location: Zummerzet, where the zoider apples grow
Sal Paradise wrote:The term scab is pretty emotive - so anyone who disagrees with the majority is a scab - surely the failure is your inability to convince them of the merits of your argument? To stop normal people not involved in disputes from carrying out their daily business is abhorrent.


Scab, black-leg or strike-breaker, are not emotive, they are desriptive of the actions of non-union labour who otherwise would have been involved in agricultural haulage, taking an opportunity to profit at the expense of those who had withdrawn their labour in order to improve their working conditions. The fact that the scabs would also have ultimately benefited from any improvements in pay and conditions made it all the more unpaletable.

The vast majority of drivers were in the main trades unions: TGWU, URTU, USDAW; most of the non-unionised (and some unionised) drivers had been iven dispensations to engage in vital supplies, they and their employers chose to take advantage of the strike by engaging in general haulage, often by using amateur subterfuge. I remember driving a minibus full of pickets to a local factory after an attempted strike-break. When we arrived we found a truck with an animal feed dispensation sticker in the windscreen, his load was fully sheeted and hay could be seen at the bottom edges of the sheet. He'd glued hay to the chock rails, hoping we wouldn't question why a company like Smith & Nephew would need a delivery of animal feed






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:04 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
In The Arms of 13 Angels
User avatar

Joined: Mar 15 2009
Posts: 20628
cod'ead wrote:Scab, black-leg or strike-breaker, are not emotive, they are desriptive of the actions of non-union labour who otherwise would have been involved in agricultural haulage, taking an opportunity to profit at the expense of those who had withdrawn their labour in order to improve their working conditions. The fact that the scabs would also have ultimately benefited from any improvements in pay and conditions made it all the more unpaletable.


I've crossed picket lines, usually because i'm happy with my pay and conditions, if i don't agree with those on strike why penalize myself?
You'd say i was the one being selfish but personally i thought they were the ones being greedy.
I was in an industry that thought 28k a year wasn't enough to live on and an 'insult' and wanted 30k. Like the extra £38 a week was a way of stopping being insulted.
Scabs might undermine your strike but if they don't agree with your opinions or politics who are you to force it on them?






It's been fun.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:15 am 
International Chairman
Club Coach
User avatar

Joined: Feb 27 2002
Posts: 18060
Location: On the road
cod'ead wrote:Scab, black-leg or strike-breaker, are not emotive, they are desriptive of the actions of non-union labour who otherwise would have been involved in agricultural haulage, taking an opportunity to profit at the expense of those who had withdrawn their labour in order to improve their working conditions. The fact that the scabs would also have ultimately benefited from any improvements in pay and conditions made it all the more unpaletable.

The vast majority of drivers were in the main trades unions: TGWU, URTU, USDAW; most of the non-unionised (and some unionised) drivers had been iven dispensations to engage in vital supplies, they and their employers chose to take advantage of the strike by engaging in general haulage, often by using amateur subterfuge. I remember driving a minibus full of pickets to a local factory after an attempted strike-break. When we arrived we found a truck with an animal feed dispensation sticker in the windscreen, his load was fully sheeted and hay could be seen at the bottom edges of the sheet. He'd glued hay to the chock rails, hoping we wouldn't question why a company like Smith & Nephew would need a delivery of animal feed


If it were legal most firms would pay higher wages to non union members - its a fallacy that unions always negotiate the best T&Cs. Significant numbers of people have lost their jobs because of the actions of unions - my own industry has seen huge factory closures, the PLC I work for has closed 13 in five years - the first to go are always those where UNITE has a significant presence.

Are you suggesting that if you are not a union member - I have never been a union member - that if the union calls a strike in the firm you work for you should also strike?






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:59 am 
International Star
Club Captain
User avatar

Joined: Jul 09 2012
Posts: 3605
Location: Leeds
I only ever had experience of working in one unionised industry, electrical contracting in the 1970s where every qualified electrician was a member of the EEPTU, it being virtually compulsory especially if you wanted to work on larger projects.

From memory they were a "mild" union in that we didn't have any strikes for the ten years I was in that trade and annual pay increases were simply agreed with the employers trade organisation, the ECA and others, from memory Frank Chapple was considered to be a moderate leader and from inside the trade he certainly kept a level playing field - reading a quick resume of his union in Wiki its obvious that he ruffled a few feathers in the TUC with his policy of single union agreements and they eventually evicted the EEPTU from the TUC :D

The only thing that ever caused us problems as employers was the strict dogma of no bonus payments on building sites, there were two rates for the two grades of electricians and they were considered to be the rate for the job, overtime rates were pre-agreed and that was that.

Of course in the real world both employers and employees would apply bonus schemes to contracts, we did it all the time, it was actually my job to survey the sites and work out the bonus targets for each section of work, and then pay them when complete within the time allotted - all of this was strictly against the union code and we would have had strikes called if they had found out, truth is that no-one told the union because it benefited everyone, our electricians earned the bonus on top of their standard rates for completing work quicker than estimated, and the company made more profit from doing so - we only ever had one very strong union electrician and he and I would spend hours sitting on drums of cable discussing his political views which rested somewhere to the left of Marx until eventually he'd look at his watch and declare that he'd better get on because he was on a good bonus run this week and he'd lost two hours already gabbing to me.

And THATS where I learned of the power of money over principal :lol:






Someday everything is gonna be different, when I paint my masterpiece
----------------------------------------------------------
Online art gallery, selling original landscape artwork
----------------------------------------------------------
JerryChicken - The Blog
----------------------------------------------------------

Top
   
 
 Post subject: Re: Ding Dong the wicked witch is dead...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:32 am 
Moderator
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: May 07 2007
Posts: 12488
Location: Durham
Horatio Yed wrote:I've crossed picket lines, usually because i'm happy with my pay and conditions, if i don't agree with those on strike why penalize myself?
You'd say i was the one being selfish but personally i thought they were the ones being greedy.
I was in an industry that thought 28k a year wasn't enough to live on and an 'insult' and wanted 30k. Like the extra £38 a week was a way of stopping being insulted.
Scabs might undermine your strike but if they don't agree with your opinions or politics who are you to force it on them?


Boasting about being a scab makes you look like a complete w@nker.






Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers

Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????

Top
   
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 1031 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82 ... 104  Next





It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:05 am


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 201 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


It is currently Thu Dec 05, 2024 12:05 am
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6m
IMG Score
Wigan Bull
85
11m
2025 Season tickets
Wigan Bull
26
33m
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
karetaker
45
39m
Film game
karetaker
6003
Recent
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
Recent
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
Recent
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
Recent
IMG scores
FIL
265
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Planning for next season
Binosh
201
1m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
2m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
2m
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
2m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
2m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63325
3m
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
3m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
4m
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
RLFANS Match Centre
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds - Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield - Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Fri 28th Feb
SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Hull FC
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Catalans
Sat 1st Mar
SL
14:30
Wakefield - St.Helens
SL
21:30
Wigan-Warrington
Sun 2nd Mar
SL
15:00
Leeds-Castleford
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
6m
IMG Score
Wigan Bull
85
11m
2025 Season tickets
Wigan Bull
26
33m
Refs referring it to video as a try or not
karetaker
45
39m
Film game
karetaker
6003
Recent
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
Recent
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
Recent
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
Recent
IMG scores
FIL
265
Recent
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
1m
Planning for next season
Binosh
201
1m
Pre Season - 2025
Chris71
225
2m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
Armavinit
2
2m
Salford placed in special measures
supercat
126
2m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
TitanicClown
4066
2m
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
2m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63325
3m
2025 Kits
Armavinit
30
3m
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
4m
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Wigan warriors 2022 away shirt
WWste
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge for Televised Games in 2025
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Captains Challenge to be introduced in 2025
MadDogg
3
TODAY
Rule Changes
mwindass
4
TODAY
Player Contracts
Trojan Horse
4
TODAY
Fans Forum 12 Dec 11th
Dunkirk Spir
3
TODAY
Laurie Daley returns as NSW origin coach
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
2025 Challenge Cup
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Challenge Cup
BigTime
6
TODAY
Friendlies
Deadcowboys1
3
TODAY
Sam Luckley likely to miss the beginning of new season
Huddersfield
1
TODAY
Frankie Halton sign new deal
ColD
2
TODAY
Transfer chatter for 2025 - New Dec 1st tamper date
HU8HFC
29
TODAY
Trinity shop Sunday opening
phe13
1
TODAY
Tyler Craig
Wanderer
1
TODAY
Matty Ashurst testimonial dinner
Big lads mat
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!












.