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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 8:55 am 
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Mintball wrote:Wasn't there an outcry at some point because we were importing coal mined by children?


Hey, it was "cheap" who cares?






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
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kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

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"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 10:58 am 
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cod'ead wrote:As has been pointed out before, W Germany managed to continue with a strong manufacturing base, despite most industries being heavily unionised.

The cheap, brown coal that we imported from Australia and India may have cost less per tonne than British coal but it was of such poor calorific value that the price difference was negligible when costed on an energy-produced basis and helped push up the cost of producing British steel. Further factor in the extra welfare payments required and it had a negative impact on our economy.


As has also been pointed out before the relationship between the unions and the employers is significantly different to that of what existed and still exists in the UK. This relationship changed significantly at the time of the last major recession in Germany and the balance of power shifted to the employers, the unions in Germany have a very limited power base i.e. they seen the light whereby unrealistic pay and condition demands lead to loss of jobs. It helps when the bosses are also realistic about their own worth.






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:16 am 
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Sal Paradise wrote:As has also been pointed out before the relationship between the unions and the employers is significantly different to that of what existed and still exists in the UK. This relationship changed significantly at the time of the last major recession in Germany and the balance of power shifted to the employers, the unions in Germany have a very limited power base i.e. they seen the light whereby unrealistic pay and condition demands lead to loss of jobs. It helps when the bosses are also realistic about their own worth.


The relationship between German trades unions and management has never really changed at all, it never needed to and as has been proved here on numerous occasions, when British unions are invloved in decision making, there's far more chance of a equitable outcome. But please don't let that prevent you from your knocking of everything related to the trades union movement






The older I get, the better I was

Advice is what we seek when we already know the answer - but wish we didn't

I'd rather have a full bottle in front of me than a full-frontal lobotomy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
kirkstaller wrote: "All DNA shows is that we have a common creator."

cod'ead wrote: "I have just snotted weissbier all over my keyboard & screen"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin." - Aneurin Bevan

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:07 pm 
All Time Great
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Here's a little thingie to chuck in: how much did the decision by Rupert Murdoch to ban all independent trades unions from NI titles at Wapping, and replace them with an in-hpuse staff association, contribute to a culture of criminal and unethical behaviour being allowed to continue for such a long time?






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 12:15 pm 
All Time Great
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"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:10 pm 
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cod'ead wrote:The relationship between German trades unions and management has never really changed at all, it never needed to and as has been proved here on numerous occasions, when British unions are invloved in decision making, there's far more chance of a equitable outcome. But please don't let that prevent you from your knocking of everything related to the trades union movement


As usual we must agree to disagree - newsnight did a piece on Karcher about two weeks ago where the issue of union influence was discussed - the boss man explained how the unions had changed their tune significantly in the last 20 years. The collective arrangement still exists but the power had shifted to the bosses, this shift was a major factor in the success of Karcher over the past 20 years. Maybe Karcher are an isolated case - unlikely given the collective bargaining arrangement that has existed for 50+ years. It will be interesting to see how the rise of the Niche unions will impact Germany along with dwindling union membership. Strange how so few people can a see such a good thing as union membership (sic)!!






Your job is to say to yourself on a job interview does the hiring manager likes me or not. If you aren't a particular manager's cup of tea, you haven't failed -- you've dodged a bullet.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:12 pm 
All Time Great
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Even Cameron's expected mates aren't happy.

Mind, the linked-to FT story about whinging financiers is a hoot.
Even Cameron's expected mates aren't happy.

Mind, the linked-to FT story about whinging financiers is a hoot.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 1:16 pm 
All Time Great
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Sal Paradise wrote:... Strange how so few people can a see such a good thing as union membership (sic)!!


Indeed.

It's easy to see why they'd be convinced that the best option is to go, individually, to their employer, say 'please Sir, can I have some more?' and then cry on the internet when the nasty "boss man" [sic] laughs hysterically and sends them out with nothing.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:17 am 
In The Arms of 13 Angels
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Ajw71 wrote:Please explain how the results of the general election in 79 can be a yardstick to measure how great Thatcher was? She hadn't even served a term in office yet...


Oh dear, is that the best you can come up with?
OK, take the next general election.
Having experienced a term under the handbag rule, more people voted against her than for her.
Take the next after that, after people had experienced two terms, more people voted against her than for her.

Ajw71 wrote:... You disagree about being in a minority, please provide evidence to support your claims, as I have done. ..

See above, I am in the majority.






Freedom without Socialism is privilege and injustice.
Socialism without freedom is slavery and brutality.

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 Post subject: Re: Is our Commie government losing the plot?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:16 pm 
All Time Great
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Some data here shows the disparity between votes cast per (main) parties and seats won in the 1983 general election (see fig 2).

Table 2 on page 6 shows that, from 1979 to 2005, the average vote share of the winning party was 41.4%.
Some data here shows the disparity between votes cast per (main) parties and seats won in the 1983 general election (see fig 2).

Table 2 on page 6 shows that, from 1979 to 2005, the average vote share of the winning party was 41.4%.






"You are working for Satan." Kirkstaller

"Dare to know!" Immanuel Kant

"Do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive" Elbert Hubbard

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars." Oscar Wilde

The Voluptuous Manifesto – thoughts on all sorts of stuff.

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