Quote:Had the Nationalists simply targeted the RUC and the British Military, possibly even members of the Government, then there may be some credence in that point of view. Although, for me personally, the ideal of a "fair war" does raise a smile, and is the sort of fruit bat loopery the likes of Durham would come out with. Admitedly he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, that would be a stakeknife eh Durham?
Good reference there about steakknife i also wondered about DMW .
Quote:However, you cannot conveniently ignore for the sake of your own conscience, the many cruel acts and sectarian violence they wrought on the civilian population in Northern Ireland and beyond, from their political aspirations
.
I had suggested that in war you choose the side you are on and have to accept the good and the bad consequences of that. Something i have never shied away from particularly the death of all the innocent civillians. Unlike you however i can see with two eyes rather than one and recognise that terrible actions were carried out by both sides. You however only seem to see the actions of one side and choose to condemn them.
Quote:What was the political point they were trying to make at Kingsmill in 1976 when they stopped a minibus taking workers home and massacred the 10 Protestants onboard?...
That happened the day after A Loyalist gang made up of UVF members , a police man and a soldier among others had killed 6 catholics. This gang the Glananne gang killed 250 catholics over a number of years. The IRA was drawn into this and killed a number of Protestants as retaliation ( approximately 90 killed). This would suggest that the Protestant paramilitaries with the active invovement of Police officers and British soldiers were 2 and a half times worse than than the Republicans. However , the attack you mention i believe was carried out by members of INLA and nothing to do with Adams or McGuinness.
Quote:.. Omagh?
Was this not the Real IRA trying to undermine the peace process being pushed by Adams and McGuinness.
Quote:..... Inniskillen?
Again a terrible tragedy that innocent civillians were killed following a botched attempt to kill members of the an army. However the IRA brigade that carried it out were suspended from active service for the rest of the troubles. The bombing actually helped push the peace procee as Sinn Fein realised that the continuing deaths of civillians was no longer justifiable.
Quote:..... the many people who simply disappeared after being taken away for a chat by that killing Unit commanded by Gerry Adams? Hopefully though, the JEAN McConville killing will come back to bite the master revisionist on the booty. Incidentally, that's my favourite photo of the pair of them
.
I think it is accepted that Gerry Adams set up the unit that dealt with suspected informants and Jean McConvilles death was probably his responsibility
Quote:I readily acknowledge the conditions that Catholics had to live under in NI in the sixties were deplorable, and had to change. I also understand the particular sectarian edge that Irish history brings into the equation, and the easy and quick acceptance of violence as simply another option. Adams made that clear with his "Armalite and the Ballot box" spiel.
But if you have enough personal conviction to join a terrorist organisation in pursuit of those ideals, then don't complain if the by your actions you meet somebody in uniform, armed with a large rifle, and with the authority of HM Government coming towards you.
Milltown is full of those who failed to understand the meaning of the word, consequences
You seem to place all the responsibility as do others on here at the hands of McGuinness and Adams and the Republican movement. We have got to 14 pages and hardly a mention of what Nationalists in Ireland had to experience. The Sectarian killings were started by Loyalists and then retaliated against by Nationalists. The Shankhil butchers are an example of what Catholics had to experience but then again i suppose that is all the fault of the Republicans as well. I suppose if those pesky nationalists had not demanded civil rights and an end to discrimination then all of this would not have happened. Why could they not just accept second class status instead of antagonising those nice orangemen and their bowler hats who just like a nice stroll in the park.
Same with those uppity niggers in America if they had not started wanting to be treated equally they would not have upset those nice farmers in the souith who ended up having to waste their bed linen making nice little white halloween suits.
]
Quote:Had the Nationalists simply targeted the RUC and the British Military, possibly even members of the Government, then there may be some credence in that point of view. Although, for me personally, the ideal of a "fair war" does raise a smile, and is the sort of fruit bat loopery the likes of Durham would come out with. Admitedly he's not the sharpest knife in the drawer, that would be a stakeknife eh Durham?
Good reference there about steakknife i also wondered about DMW .
Quote:However, you cannot conveniently ignore for the sake of your own conscience, the many cruel acts and sectarian violence they wrought on the civilian population in Northern Ireland and beyond, from their political aspirations
.
I had suggested that in war you choose the side you are on and have to accept the good and the bad consequences of that. Something i have never shied away from particularly the death of all the innocent civillians. Unlike you however i can see with two eyes rather than one and recognise that terrible actions were carried out by both sides. You however only seem to see the actions of one side and choose to condemn them.
Quote:What was the political point they were trying to make at Kingsmill in 1976 when they stopped a minibus taking workers home and massacred the 10 Protestants onboard?...
That happened the day after A Loyalist gang made up of UVF members , a police man and a soldier among others had killed 6 catholics. This gang the Glananne gang killed 250 catholics over a number of years. The IRA was drawn into this and killed a number of Protestants as retaliation ( approximately 90 killed). This would suggest that the Protestant paramilitaries with the active invovement of Police officers and British soldiers were 2 and a half times worse than than the Republicans. However , the attack you mention i believe was carried out by members of INLA and nothing to do with Adams or McGuinness.
Quote:.. Omagh?
Was this not the Real IRA trying to undermine the peace process being pushed by Adams and McGuinness.
Quote:..... Inniskillen?
Again a terrible tragedy that innocent civillians were killed following a botched attempt to kill members of the an army. However the IRA brigade that carried it out were suspended from active service for the rest of the troubles. The bombing actually helped push the peace procee as Sinn Fein realised that the continuing deaths of civillians was no longer justifiable.
Quote:..... the many people who simply disappeared after being taken away for a chat by that killing Unit commanded by Gerry Adams? Hopefully though, the JEAN McConville killing will come back to bite the master revisionist on the booty. Incidentally, that's my favourite photo of the pair of them
.
I think it is accepted that Gerry Adams set up the unit that dealt with suspected informants and Jean McConvilles death was probably his responsibility
Quote:I readily acknowledge the conditions that Catholics had to live under in NI in the sixties were deplorable, and had to change. I also understand the particular sectarian edge that Irish history brings into the equation, and the easy and quick acceptance of violence as simply another option. Adams made that clear with his "Armalite and the Ballot box" spiel.
But if you have enough personal conviction to join a terrorist organisation in pursuit of those ideals, then don't complain if the by your actions you meet somebody in uniform, armed with a large rifle, and with the authority of HM Government coming towards you.
Milltown is full of those who failed to understand the meaning of the word, consequences
You seem to place all the responsibility as do others on here at the hands of McGuinness and Adams and the Republican movement. We have got to 14 pages and hardly a mention of what Nationalists in Ireland had to experience. The Sectarian killings were started by Loyalists and then retaliated against by Nationalists. The Shankhil butchers are an example of what Catholics had to experience but then again i suppose that is all the fault of the Republicans as well. I suppose if those pesky nationalists had not demanded civil rights and an end to discrimination then all of this would not have happened. Why could they not just accept second class status instead of antagonising those nice orangemen and their bowler hats who just like a nice stroll in the park.
Same with those uppity niggers in America if they had not started wanting to be treated equally they would not have upset those nice farmers in the souith who ended up having to waste their bed linen making nice little white halloween suits.
Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers
Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????
Joined: Feb 18 2006 Posts: 18610 Location: Somewhere in Bonny Donny (Twinned with Krakatoa in 1883).
Durham Giant wrote:I edited my above post to practice using the Quote buttons i know Cronus seems to think it is really important.
Yeah, but you have to learn to quote specifically to the poster you are replying to. You know, including their user name with each quote. As in the above, but for all the subsequent ones in your post. That looks a lot more professional. Happy quoting.
War does not determine who is right - only who is left.
Durham Giant wrote:Fascinating stuff DMW. Quite happy to jump on the anti Tory bandwagon hence i assumed you were towards the left. What i do get though is the stench of sectarianism that comes through in your posts. Anyone would think you were a Rangers fan or their Edinburgh equivalent Hearts. A bit of scots presbyterianism in there maybe.
I was waiting for the Cowards bit which is why i pre-empted it by using the Francis Hughes story earlier. Regardless of which slightly differing accounts from me and RS hardly the actions of a coward.
I must have touched a nerve with my Trotsky quote, but again i wrongly assumed that you were on the left and i used it to challenge the hyposcrisy of thos left wingers who quite happily support National Liberation struggles in palestine, SA or Rhodesia but do not have the Cojones to challenge British nationalism.
It was amazing how the 1st couple of years everyone hated Thatcher but a little war in the South Atlantic and the left had no idea what to do. Wham bam everyone is waving the flag and geting behind our boys.
I was going to write that it would have been worrying to have you next to me on the workers barricades as the workers seize power. Then the army march against us ready to smash our heads in with rifle butts and poor little you saying, " we cannot shoot back they are flying the Union Jack and singing rule britannia".
However after reading your posts i am fairly certain that at the first whiff of being accused of being anti patriotic you would have been off like a flash.
The stench of Sectarianism ? Where would that be ? Have I slagged off Catholics or is the fact the Cathoilc Church were, and are, quite happy to hide IRA criminals and even absolve them through confession something that bothers you ? I'm really sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Rangers or Hearts fan or even Scots Presbytarian so that blows that out of the water. I don't care in the slightest about the Trotsky quote so why you think it might have touched a nerve with me is a surprise. You are quite sarcastic really aren't you with your last two paragraphs ?
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.
Durham Giant wrote:]Good reference there about steakknife i also wondered about DMW .
.
I had suggested that in war you choose the side you are on and have to accept the good and the bad consequences of that. Something i have never shied away from particularly the death of all the innocent civillians. Unlike you however i can see with two eyes rather than one and recognise that terrible actions were carried out by both sides. You however only seem to see the actions of one side and choose to condemn them.
That happened the day after A Loyalist gang made up of UVF members , a police man and a soldier among others had killed 6 catholics. This gang the Glananne gang killed 250 catholics over a number of years. The IRA was drawn into this and killed a number of Protestants as retaliation ( approximately 90 killed). This would suggest that the Protestant paramilitaries with the active invovement of Police officers and British soldiers were 2 and a half times worse than than the Republicans. However , the attack you mention i believe was carried out by members of INLA and nothing to do with Adams or McGuinness.
Was this not the Real IRA trying to undermine the peace process being pushed by Adams and McGuinness.
Again a terrible tragedy that innocent civillians were killed following a botched attempt to kill members of the an army. However the IRA brigade that carried it out were suspended from active service for the rest of the troubles. The bombing actually helped push the peace procee as Sinn Fein realised that the continuing deaths of civillians was no longer justifiable.
.
I think it is accepted that Gerry Adams set up the unit that dealt with suspected informants and Jean McConvilles death was probably his responsibility
You seem to place all the responsibility as do others on here at the hands of McGuinness and Adams and the Republican movement. We have got to 14 pages and hardly a mention of what Nationalists in Ireland had to experience. The Sectarian killings were started by Loyalists and then retaliated against by Nationalists. The Shankhil butchers are an example of what Catholics had to experience but then again i suppose that is all the fault of the Republicans as well. I suppose if those pesky nationalists had not demanded civil rights and an end to discrimination then all of this would not have happened. Why could they not just accept second class status instead of antagonising those nice orangemen and their bowler hats who just like a nice stroll in the park.
Same with those uppity niggers in America if they had not started wanting to be treated equally they would not have upset those nice farmers in the souith who ended up having to waste their bed linen making nice little white halloween suits.
I think you should be very careful using that word to describe African Americans in future.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.
Stand-Offish wrote:Yeah, but you have to learn to quote specifically to the poster you are replying to. You know, including their user name with each quote. As in the above, but for all the subsequent ones in your post. That looks a lot more professional. Happy quoting.
Im am still practicing. But will take on board your advice.
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Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????
Dead Man Walking wrote:The stench of Sectarianism ? Where would that be ? Have I slagged off Catholics or is the fact the Cathoilc Church were, and are, quite happy to hide IRA criminals and even absolve them through confession something that bothers you ? I'm really sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Rangers or Hearts fan or even Scots Presbytarian so that blows that out of the water. I don't care in the slightest about the Trotsky quote so why you think it might have touched a nerve with me is a surprise. You are quite sarcastic really aren't you with your last two paragraphs ?
My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread.
Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season
Dead Man Walking wrote:The stench of Sectarianism ? Where would that be ? Have I slagged off Catholics or is the fact the Cathoilc Church were, and are, quite happy to hide IRA criminals and even absolve them through confession something that bothers you ? I'm really sorry to disappoint you but I'm not a Rangers or Hearts fan or even Scots Presbytarian so that blows that out of the water. I don't care in the slightest about the Trotsky quote so why you think it might have touched a nerve with me is a surprise. You are quite sarcastic really aren't you with your last two paragraphs ?
My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread.
Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season
Dead Man Walking wrote:I think you should be very careful using that word to describe African Americans in future.
Context is evrything and in the context of the last two paragraphs of that post it is very clear what the meaning is. To provoke a response by using heavy irony and just making the point that people who are discriminated against or being oppressed are not responsible for the actions of those who oppress them when they are challenged.
Huddersfield Giants 2013 over achievers
Huddersfield Giants 2014 under achievers ??????????
Now you are clutching at straws and it really doesn't look good at all. That proves absolutely nothing and for you to trawl through pages and pages of posts is quite worrying.
Durham Giant wrote:My mistake it must have been a different Dead Man Walking who posted this on the Scottish football thread.
Well done Rangers. Hopefully Hearts can try to challenge next season
Now you are clutching at straws and it really doesn't look good at all. That proves absolutely nothing and for you to trawl through pages and pages of posts is quite worrying.
Science flies people to the moon. Religion flies people into buildings.
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