Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Jukesays wrote:The main crux of my post was to draw realistic and reasonable parallels to what happened at the start of our last great Era and the understanding that for 10 years before that and for 3/4/5 years after 1980 we had a Real Dearth of success/talent at the club!
That's the problem I have with your original post. They are not realistic or reasonable parallels IMO.
You have decided what the conclusion is and so construct a series of arguments from where to you start from where you want to get to. It's a bit like Chinese whispers.
The trouble is these arguments are little more than suppositions or questions you subsequently treat as a factual basis to further your advance to the conclusion you want to present.
As good an example as any is in your reply to Jonh when you said:
Quote:Again I agree with your statements about recruitment over players and it not being as simple as 1+1 = 2 as you put it but I would add that Maybe, just Maybe that's what IL had to cope with at the point he gave BN an extra 12 months.
And maybe, just maybe, it wasn't but it won't stop you concluding it was.
Dave
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
Joined: Dec 22 2001 Posts: 14395 Location: Chester
Jukesays wrote:This one!
Lets get to the Crux of it then!
Do you Believe that as a "Complete Club" (Not just on the field) we are in a better or Worse position looking at the next 5 years considering what the exisiting Chairman has done in his first 12/18 months than we were 3/4 years ago (2005 early 2006) and the prospects then for the following 5 years?
Simple answer required
2005/2006 - ML & DW at the Helm Looking forward at next 4/5 years
or
2009/2010 - IL MH at the helm looking at our prospects for the next 4/5 years
There is no point speculating what ML & DW would be doing if still running the club, they are not. The only thing that counts is what IL does now he is the owner.
Off the field it's clear things are moving in the right direction (Mick Hogan etc). Playing wise including, the coach, on field and recruitment it isn't.
Dave
Last league derby at Central Park 5/9/1999: Wigan 28 St. Helens 20 Last league derby at Knowsley Road 2/4/2010: St. Helens 10 Wigan 18
DaveO wrote:Yes it is. I presume that isn't a problem?
Most people do not see him as 7 and qualify their agreement with his re-signing that he moves to 9. My view is that isn't very likely for the reasons I have given. However that does not mean it should be seen as a negative simply because that is my opinion. People can read what I post and make their own minds up as to whether I have a point or not.
Isn't that what this place is about?
Dave
As do I. However your reasoning re: why he will be played at 7 next season is entirely flawed! Firstly isn't he already being used at interchange hooker despite not having a viable alternative at half (unless you count Smith's last performance), giving at least some indication that this is at least being considered as his main position. Also, as everyone, yourself included, considers Smith to be amongst the most likely to return home next season, isn't it most likely that we would be looking to replace a departing half with an incoming half, rather than some convoluted, made up reasoning of your own to argue that TL will remain at 7? After all it's not as if we haven't already made some effort to bring a SO in this season (Bird/Carney) let alone next!
Your arguments making TL's resigning to be a bad one simply don't hold water yet you argue them as if they were fact and present the signing as a negative based on nothing but flawed hypothesis! Let's put it this way, if TL weren't already signed and we anounced the signing of the World cup winning hooker for next season, would you seriously be arguing it as a backward step?
Joined: Mar 30 2004 Posts: 7779 Location: Sorting my Erection out & Helping Conroy With his!
DaveO wrote:There is no point speculating what ML & DW would be doing if still running the club, they are not. The only thing that counts is what IL does now he is the owner.
I didn't ask that. I asked How did you feel in 2005 early 2006 about the prospects of the club at that Time! Do you feel better now than you did then? Is this another way of avoiding the question?
Off the field it's clear things are moving in the right direction (Mick Hogan etc). Playing wise including, the coach, on field and recruitment it isn't.
In your opinion, IMO it is!
And the reason??
Because as my OP says we didn't jump from Jimmy Hornby to Martin Offiah in one swoop - We took steps to get there! You seem to want those steps immediately. Nothing wrong in that I suppose but I don't belive that's how we got there last time and I don't see anythin in any of you posts to make me change my mind!
You say Ford to gregory, I say Coyle/Flowers/Stevens/Fairhurst/Ford & Then Gregory!
You say Clarke/Mcinnes to Lowe
I say Fairburn/Bamford/Murphy/Clarke-Mcinnes/Lowe!
Subtle difference but nontheless I make it 5 years of building that Lindsay & the club did before making the BIG steps!
Dave
Fans Forum 28.08.08 Fan from Haydock
"I've got one word for you Mr Chairman - Penalty Count"
[quote="The Daddy"]I've got one word for you all......Steve Hanley[/quote]
Some Salford fan said to me and I quote "You are by far and away the most Handsome & Knowledgeable Rugby League Fan in England!"
I thanked him and went on my Merry way!
RIVERCAVE DWELLER OF THE YEAR 2015!
"The club used you last night and didn't tell the truth."
I have been on here about a year now and reading it for 3 years or so and thats one of the best posts ever made.
I would like to add that we should support the coach and players who are here if we like them or not, at the end of the day Noble and Fielden who have taken stick are our players so lets encourage what we have rather than wish we had what we cant.
Dropkick Murphy..we actually saw and heard a mass of bouncing and scarf and flag waving to Dale Cavese that drowned out anything we could muster.. It stopped us singing our own celebratory songs, it died out seconds later when we accepted we couldn't be heard over the Wigan lot Celebrations muted from us, job done from them. Most fans who slag them off are jealous their own club's support is nowhere near that good - sally cinnamon..Why not discuss Wigan? It's a rugby league message board. Wigan are the most famous brand in rugby league - Tre Cool..Saints fans are hopeless unless it's a cup final or grand final. Wigan fans are so much more loyal and passionate - the flying biscuit..Wires havent been massively succesful over the years, but I've spoke to Brian Bevan And he spoke to me and i wouldnt swap that for Wigans History, ever - Ande..on the TV i could only hear the Wigan fans with about 10 to go - Saint94..Every team is in your feckin shadow, we all know - FIOS
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