Suggest away, but we've also changed the chairman and the owner of the club in that time, and are in the process of changing - hopefully - the entire culture of the club, though that will clearly take more time.

That may go some way towards addressing it, unless - like others who occasionally venture onto this site - you're suggesting (gleefully / mischievously?) it's some intangible problem which will never be solved because quite simply we are Wigan and are therefore fundamentally flawed?

Perhaps one thing we could do is work out some clever tax-dodging trick that will ensure we go straight to the top of the tree and remain there until the tax man eventually (inevitably) catches up with us.

Correct me if I'm wrong ..but wasn't Raper leaving at the end of the season anyway? also Betts was only a tempory position..Gregory was just a tragic affair..sadly we'll never know how good he could have been..Millward was imo the biggest mistake we ever made (now that was a panic appointment imo) Endacott was imo badly done to..and Noble is still here so take away Raper..Gregory..and..Betts..we have only sacked 4 coaches (two in the same year) in ten years not quite as bad as people make out.

Replying to cruncher and diesel.

I'm not on here to try to make mischief: I only do that if people start to patronise me. Trolling is for others, not me.

It's just that Wigan have been through (for you) a rough spell in the last 10 years, and while the salary cap has been an issue along with the fact that all SL clubs are now fully professional, you would think that there would have been a lot more silverware for you guys over the decade.

You've had the spending power of the other big guns in SL, and I was trying to show that you've also had your fair share of decent coaches (I wasn't coming on trying to say that any of them should or shouldn't have been sacked or that any of them have necessarily been the cause of any of the problems.) You've had some good players and good coaches in that time. And that's why I think the problem is elsewhere.

And your post makes sense. This is the reason i support Noble. How many more coaches are we going to try? You get to a point where you have to ask yourself is the coach really the problem and if we do sack Noble are we going to bring another coach in who in 2/3 years time has the same problems again because no doubt he will want his own team. I think we should give Noble at another 12 months and next year make sure we have strengthened the forwards and brought in a halfback that can actually run the show and for one that can kick the ball would be nice. Only then can you say well Noble has got his team,he has a team that is balanced and he has failed. Then i would agree you would have to question him as a coach.

Fair post.

As I say - and I'll try to be less terse this time - we have made significant changes in the back room over the last couple of years. Whether that will improve things or not, who knows - the signs of a change in our fortunes are very slow. But then perhaps we shouldn't expect anything else. One of our big problems for example is that Stuart Fielden is still taking up a big chunk of the cap. I'm not blaming that for every problem we have, but it's certainly affecting our recruitment capability and must register as a very troublesome hang-over from the former administration (though at the time, to be fair to them, they thought they were buying the best prop forward in the world). Another problem that's only now being addressed is the appointment of more conditioning and training staff, though why it hasn't happened before this year I don't really know.

Whatever fundamental problem lies at the root of this club, there's no point in us asking for a new chairman / owner, etc. That would be no solution - the new guy still needs time to remake the club in his own image. And even if he suddenly decides he's had enough, we'd then have another chaotic period of looking for a buyer etc, and all the worries about Whelan and Latics would resurface - it'd be a nightmare and would surely set us back years.

Aside from all that, I can only really suggest that some sympathetic witch-doctor roll the bones and try to find out which SOB put a curse on us, and, if possible, reverse it - because it feels permanently as if it's one step forward and three steps back.

But are we really going backwards??? I am not so sure right now. I think our attack has looked a lot more promising over the last few games. The combination of Roberts and Gleeson, looks really promising - both classy players. Also Carmont and Ainscough also look strong on the other side. I also like the balance of youth and experience, as well as the introduction of more British / Wigan players. Also Sam Tomkins looks like a future star for us, if not this season.

Of course we are really weak up the middle, and this is where I agree with all of the criticism over the lack of signings for prop forward. Also our attack lacks real strategy and creativity (which is why I keep saying we need to bring in a good attack oriented coach to work with Noble). Fitness also appears to be an issue - which, really there is no excuse for.

I thought Father Ted's post was excellent and summarised a good point - any team (including Saints or Leeds) would struggle with playing Cats in the circumstances we did. We started out well, but just collapsed up the middle. We definitely need to strengthen the pack - but I think the rest of the team shows lots of promise.

I am not a fan of Noble as a coach, but I think we may start to come good over the next few matches, if we have some patience. I will hold my fire before I call for Nobles head.

Im sick if being patient. We are going backwards. at the min we are the third/fourth worst team in the league, so any improvements on this would be good.

7 from 10 isnt good enough for Wigan.

I know you weren't..I was just pointing out that a lot of people seem to be under the impression that we sack coaches every year ..and while we have had our fair share of coaches it's not quite as bad as some would make out.

Unfortunately as supporters, all we can do is be patient or give up supporting Wigan. I too am very frustrated, but I still honestly think we are going in the right direction, and patience will pay off. Of course I am just going by how I see things, and don't know any more than anybody else on these forums.

I'm amazed that Wigan did not sign a direct replacement for Trent Barrett at stand off. For me Noble still doesn't know which positions to play certain players to get the best out of them. Surely, most people recognise that TL is far better at hooker than scrum half. The full back postiion has been another one. Mathers, Richards and Roberts have all played there with varying degrees of success and failure.