The other thread is talking about will he/won't he go....I thought I'd start this thread about the would-it-be-beneficial-for-us side of the deal.

I've been looking through his stats on the SL website and they show he's been pretty consistent for us. In four seasons he's only missed a handful of games, and on offloads, tackle busts and clean breaks he has either been the top centre or at least in the top two or three in the league every season. Everyone regards his first season (when he got in the SL Dream Team) as his best and it was his best in terms of scoring tries but his assists, offloads, busts and breaks his peaks were in 2006-07. In terms of the stats he was definitely better for us as an individual than he was at Saints.

Those are however overall season figures and one thing I've felt for a while about Gleeson is that he tends to deal in a few big games and other times is relatively anonymous. In contrast to a lot of his England team-mates he plays above his club form at international level. I think he's got more to give than he shows for us a lot of the time and the right change of environment could bring another gear out of him.

The background to this I think is that he's a man disillusioned with how his career has gone, and he's paid a heavy price for betting on that Bradford game in 2004. When he first came through at Hudds when Mal Reilly was coach he was linked with us a couple of times, with us having his brother, the stumbling block was they wanted Roper in exchange if I remember! It was hard to judge him when Hudds got caned every week and at the time I thought he might be one of those 'prospects' who never amounts to anything, he had good feet but didn't look big enough.

When he went to Saints there was a lot of hype in the first half of his first season, Darren Albert was saying it was like playing outside Gidley again, he got fast tracked into the GB team. After that he seemed to drop off a bit for a while but the turning point was when he played that game for England 'A' against the Aussies in 2003 after being dropped from GB, he really got into them and looked the business, and when he came back for 2004 built like a tank and started carving up at the start of that season he looked like he was on the verge of something special. He tore us up the first time Saints came to the HJ when they put 50 on us and Albert got a hat-trick outside him. After that game I remember thinking this was good news for GB, he looked a cut ahead of the other British backs, he had better footwork and hands than anyone else and now he had the size to go with it, so when we signed him a couple of months later I thought this was a massive deal. He looked like he was on the verge of becoming someone in the league of Robinson, Newlove, Davies etc.

As things happened he ended up wasting his peak years, because he did become the best centre in the league over the next couple of seasons but playing at Warrington didn't have the significance that it would if he'd been at Saints still. I've brought up before on this forum the point about too many of our players having won trophies elsewhere, and not expecting to win anything else with us, and it not being a good mentality....Gleeson is likely to be more bitter than most because he won one SL and one CC early in his career and had a lot more trophies in him, but year by year he's realised that he's lost the peak of his career at a club where things weren't right. That betting saga cost him 3 CCs and another SL at Saints.

The last chance to achieve something significant is to go to the NRL like he's been talking about for the last year, if he went over and made a name for himself like Ellis is starting to do it would give him an achievement to cap his career - and if he played up to the top of his game he could make an impact over there. If he goes to Wigan its going to shut the door on that and it will run down the rest of his career. Once the initial excitement of a new environment is over he's going to find himself in the same position he was with us - Wigan are better than we are but they are still a good 3 years away from winning trophies, that will take him up till age 32 and probably time for his move to Salford or back to Hudds for a year before retiring.

I think it is right that we move him on, he doesn't look like he wants to be here and him wasting his career is a negative influence on the camp. I will think its a shame that he's gone, but actually more of a shame for him than for us because he has delivered a decent return for us. We wanted the best centre in the league and thats what he was.....we didn't deliver a return for him though and he lost interest a while ago.

No Deal Noel.

Cracking post but not sure about the above.
On current form (and this includes the last couple of seasons) I'd say there wasn't a great deal in it and I'd go as far to say that the greater potential for the future is at the HJ.

Pretty much spot on, with one exception; how are Wigan better than us? They have been treading water for as long as we have, with their last final appearance being the year we were relegation fodder.

I, for one, cannot understand choosing Wigan over the NRL. If he is to make a move go onto bigger and betther things (Leeds, can't see a return to Saints) or a whole new environment in australia.

Quite bemusing really.

well they got to 2 major finals under Mike Gregory in 2003 and 2004, and we were around 6th-7th that time not exactly relegation fodder

last year we came 6th, they came 4th, we got knocked out the first round of the playoffs, they got through to the final eliminator

the year before we came 7th, they came 4th, we didn't make the playoffs, they got through to the final eliminator

Im sure if those positions were reversed, and a Wigan fan came on here telling us that Wigan were better than us, he wouldn't get much support for his argument!

I wonder if we had come 4th in the last two seasons and recorded the playoff wins that they had, that great turn around against Bradford....beating Catalans in Catalans....if Paul Cullen would still be in a job. I'm sure he would.

We were relegation fodder in 2004?

Grand Final 2003
Challenge Cup final 2004
final eliminator 2004
Missed out 2005
Missed out 2006
Final eliminator 2007
final elimantor 2008
That is a damn sight better than us.

Still it would essentially be a sideways move rather than forwards, if he was to go to Wigan, because in the duration of his contract I very much doubt they will win a major trophy.

I suppose we don't know whats actually on the table. There's been paper talk of interest from Aussie clubs but lets say for arguments sake he has one offer from Souths of a one year deal on around £45k a year, or Wigan offer him a three year deal at £110k a year, it would change things (Ive made up the figures before anyone reckons Ive got inside knowledge)

He's at the age where this will be the last significant contract he will ever sign in his career and the length is important, if he signs a two year deal and looks for deals at the end of 2011 when he's 31 then clubs will start thinking hmm this guy's coming to the end of his career. He needs to be pitching for 3 or preferably 4 year deal at this point.

On the face of it, i'd much rather have Gleeson than Mathers and Goulding. I can only think that Warrington (smith) wants him out for whatever reason , i find it hard to believe that Gleeson has requested a sideways move to wigan.

Gleeson will be a Wigan player before the weekend, for definite.

Mathers, Goulding & cash coming our way.

just what i thought,and they are already above in the league...well just for now

HP or Heinz?

Worcester!

The man himself at a Wigan St Judes game

Did you ask why?

Deal.

I've enjoyed watching him but it's time for change. It's time to back the coach because god knows we've all backed the players enough times, only now, we've got a coach that you feel is worth backing.

He's the closest to the situation, day in day out, he'll got a gut feel for peoples motivations, appetite & such. If Smith, Gleeson or both think that it's the best for both parties, and we do okay out of the agreement, then I think it's time.

What is it that folk bring up, Individuals win matches, Teams win Trophies ? Something like that, I'll go with that, lets get a team together, and if sacrifice a bit of flair, or toss away a bit of talent that might well come back and bite us or whatever, then so be it, because it's all orientated towards getting what we want, success.

Sorry, I don't subscribe to this 'we nearly made it' nonsense. It's like saying we were quite good under Van de Velde because we made the quarter and semi-final of the Challenge Cup!

He's leaving at the end of the season anyway so personally i don't really care.

Smith [iprobably[/i wants committed players (Gleeson obviously isn't).

Personally i would prefer other players coming in.

offload him to leeds and get some promising talent like Ashley Gibson.

but getting in players that Wigan don't even want?

Wigan have been more successful in SL but they are still not a great team.

Gleeson would be making an even bigger mistake than the one he did leaving Saints.

I assume Smith is thinking back to when he worked with Mathers at Leeds. I am going to trust his judgment.

Very good player when on form, can sometimes be a bit inconsistent. He’ll be amazing for a run of games then have a lean spell for several games. Like most have stated you have to worry about the calibre of replacement if they can’t get into a poor Wigan side. It’s almost the equivalent deal of us swapping reardon (was once good + injury problems) and blythe (up and coming-ish player with super league experience who now can’t get into the team) for Carmont (their best centre).

Hopefully a nice chunk of cash will ease the pain and Tony smith can continue his revolution.

sally this is the best post ever thank you and i look forward to more whats your views on jon clarke villian or hero? I can never work the guy out

Deal..

If Smith isn't going to play him as a centre then we should get rid.

No Deal..

If Smith is going to put him back as centre.


But i would like to know the following before anything happens;

a)if Gleeson want to go
b)if Smith thinks PJ is a better centre
c)he thinks that Gleeson is a our best option at Stand Off.
d)we need the money.

Deal for me, I'm just wondering where this will leave us line-up wise? I think Riley has done okay at fullback and Johnson at centre, obviously Goulding and Mathers wouldn't both just stroll into the side but I see alot of upside in Goulding, put that together with Smith's track record of working with younger players and bringing them through then it all bodes well for the future. I may be wrong on this point but did Richie Mathers play stand-off at all in his academy days.

Is the deal being delayed waiting upon your approval?

Simple anwer; in Smith we trust.

He's going anyway so i suppose getting 2 average players in the deal is better than nothing

No he isn't. He is contracted for 2010. He's been told we would be willing to release him if can get a gig in the NRL. That is not the same as he is leaving anyway.