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wigan athletic ,hull city,burley and many more clubs are not bigger than leeds but at least theyve had the chance to live the dream and play in the top tier! which the chiefs of our game have taken away I can see both arguments as in we dont want to see clubs boom and bust but its still nice to see a success story little club come good and if they are by far the best team in the league then they deserve the chance to promotion or we could see in championship case fev win title for nxt 3 years and gain nothin but be a big fish in a little pond! which the fans and other clubs will think whats the point
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The relevance of sheffield and gateshead is they were expansion clubs that were swallowed up to keep two traditional rugby league teams afloat, ie, it did not work. Though through hard work they have reformed, and have my admiration for doing so. When super league was formed they wanted other clubs to merge to create hybrid clubs with no history , all for sky television, who were, and still are, pulling the strings, at that time it was billed as a european super league, with one french club.Today's super league still has one french club, not i hasten to add the same one. So where is catalans history in our competition?. London broncos have had various names and played all over London, yet still need to be propped up by the rfl. No disrespect, you have your view , i have mine, you will never convince me that a closed super league is the way forward. As for promoting a team that finished nowhere, well anyone outside looking in must be laughing at the farce. |
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The relevance of sheffield and gateshead is they were expansion clubs that were swallowed up to keep two traditional rugby league teams afloat, ie, it did not work. Though through hard work they have reformed, and have my admiration for doing so. When super league was formed they wanted other clubs to merge to create hybrid clubs with no history , all for sky television, who were, and still are, pulling the strings, at that time it was billed as a european super league, with one french club.Today's super league still has one french club, not i hasten to add the same one. So where is catalans history in our competition?. London broncos have had various names and played all over London, yet still need to be propped up by the rfl. No disrespect, you have your view , i have mine, you will never convince me that a closed super league is the way forward. As for promoting a team that finished nowhere, well anyone outside looking in must be laughing at the farce. | |
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Quote ="donny hkr"The relevance of sheffield and gateshead is they were expansion clubs that were swallowed up to keep two traditional rugby league teams afloat, ie, it did not work. Though through hard work they have reformed, and have my admiration for doing so. When super league was formed they wanted other clubs to merge to create hybrid clubs with no history , all for sky television, who were, and still are, pulling the strings, at that time it was billed as a european super league, with one french club.Today's super league still has one french club, not i hasten to add the same one. So where is catalans history in our competition?. London broncos have had various names and played all over London, yet still need to be propped up by the rfl. No disrespect, you have your view , i have mine, you will never convince me that a closed super league is the way forward. As for promoting a team that finished nowhere, well anyone outside looking in must be laughing at the I'm">farce.'"I'm just not sure why you are talking about things that happened 12+ years ago and have absolutely no relevance to this thread or anything else that is happening at the moment. As for people laughing at the system, no, actually the FA were looking to adopt a similar model in the Premiership, which is the strongest league of the most popular sport in the world.
Quote ="mr-rugby"wigan athletic ,hull city,burley and many more clubs are not bigger than leeds but at least theyve had the chance to live the dream and play in the top tier! which the chiefs of our game have taken away I can see both arguments as in we dont want to see clubs boom and bust but its still nice to see a success story little club come good and if they are by far the best team in the league then they deserve the chance to promotion or we could see in championship case fev win title for nxt 3 years and gain nothin but be a big fish in a little pond! which the fans and other clubs will think whats the point'"The difference between football and RL is that firstly the nature of the game means that lesser teams will always have more of a chance to cause an upset in football, whereas RL is much harsher on weaker teams. And secondly, football has 4 full-time leagues, RL has one. Automatic promotion and relegation is viable between full-time leagues where there isn't too much of a difference in terms of finances. Attempting to replicate that system in RL currently would be akin to having automatic promotion and relegation between the Championship and the Conference in football, it's just stupidly unrealistic. Your point about Featherstone is a valid one, if they win the Championship for the next three years and have a strong enough application then they deserve to go up. You can't complain about them not having gone up this time though, since like I said they didn't even apply for Super League.
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Quote ="donny hkr"The relevance of sheffield and gateshead is they were expansion clubs that were swallowed up to keep two traditional rugby league teams afloat, ie, it did not work. Though through hard work they have reformed, and have my admiration for doing so. When super league was formed they wanted other clubs to merge to create hybrid clubs with no history , all for sky television, who were, and still are, pulling the strings, at that time it was billed as a european super league, with one french club.Today's super league still has one french club, not i hasten to add the same one. So where is catalans history in our competition?. London broncos have had various names and played all over London, yet still need to be propped up by the rfl. No disrespect, you have your view , i have mine, you will never convince me that a closed super league is the way forward. As for promoting a team that finished nowhere, well anyone outside looking in must be laughing at the I'm">farce.'"I'm just not sure why you are talking about things that happened 12+ years ago and have absolutely no relevance to this thread or anything else that is happening at the moment. As for people laughing at the system, no, actually the FA were looking to adopt a similar model in the Premiership, which is the strongest league of the most popular sport in the world.
Quote ="mr-rugby"wigan athletic ,hull city,burley and many more clubs are not bigger than leeds but at least theyve had the chance to live the dream and play in the top tier! which the chiefs of our game have taken away I can see both arguments as in we dont want to see clubs boom and bust but its still nice to see a success story little club come good and if they are by far the best team in the league then they deserve the chance to promotion or we could see in championship case fev win title for nxt 3 years and gain nothin but be a big fish in a little pond! which the fans and other clubs will think whats the point'"The difference between football and RL is that firstly the nature of the game means that lesser teams will always have more of a chance to cause an upset in football, whereas RL is much harsher on weaker teams. And secondly, football has 4 full-time leagues, RL has one. Automatic promotion and relegation is viable between full-time leagues where there isn't too much of a difference in terms of finances. Attempting to replicate that system in RL currently would be akin to having automatic promotion and relegation between the Championship and the Conference in football, it's just stupidly unrealistic. Your point about Featherstone is a valid one, if they win the Championship for the next three years and have a strong enough application then they deserve to go up. You can't complain about them not having gone up this time though, since like I said they didn't even apply for Super League.
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like I said I see both arguments but surely its up to the big wigs to promote or give out more help to close the gap between championship and superleague because all I can see is the gap getting bigger and eventually there is a danger of sl being a closed shop and rl below sl being a nonentity and when I say help I dont just mean throw money at them but employ couple of people who job is to just solely help the vlubs become bigger and better off the field aswell as on it! there might already be people doing this job but in my opinion its not workin,
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| Quote ="mr-rugby"like I said I see both arguments but surely its up to the big wigs to promote or give out more help to close the gap between championship and superleague because all I can see is the gap getting bigger and eventually there is a danger of sl being a closed shop and rl below sl being a nonentity and when I say help I dont just mean throw money at them but employ couple of people who job is to just solely help the vlubs become bigger and better off the field aswell as on it! there might already be people doing this job but in my opinion its not workin,'"But very few of the current Championship clubs have anything like the potential to become as big as Super League clubs. That's what I have been saying all along. Even with heavy investment, teams like Batley and Hunslet realistically wouldn't have any chance of improving to the stage where they could compete at Super League level. The only way clubs like this would ever be able to compete would be through levellng down and limiting the growth of the Super League clubs, which is one of the things that automatic promotion and relegation provided. Surely anyone can see that lowering the standard and limiting the growth of the game for the sake of certain teams that wouldn't otherwise be able to compete would be absolute stupidity. I'm sure certain posters are fairly resentful towards the new expansion teams entering the league next year, but they are the ones that will help to sustain the Championships. If we continue to rely on teams with extremely limited potential such as Batley then yes, the gap will get bigger, because these teams are not big enough to compete and will be left behind. And before anyone accuses me of being disrespectful to Batley, I'm not, the people running the club aren't idiots, they don't have any pretensions of being anything more than a good Championship side.
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we are never going to agree on this, lilke i say you have your views i have mine. attendancies at super league level, as far as i can see, dont seem much different now to what they were years ago. each year now they " take the show on the road" and play to vast empty spaces, which frankly is embarrasing to see, so who is buying into your glorious vision of the future. Attendencies at championship and below level have declined rapidly however, because fans see no future so why bother. There may be just super league teams left in years to come, if that is expansion you can keep it. The Dons. board,with fans also dipping into their own pockets, are going out on a limb to try and gain promotion, and people like you are saying "why bother" . Rugby league is a minority game and the RFL has put all its eggs in one basket, dangerous practice.
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Like i said earlier it's a waste of breath talking to these people.
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| Quote ="headhunter"I'm just not sure why you are talking about things that happened 12+ years ago and have absolutely no relevance to this thread or anything else that is happening at the moment. As for people laughing at the system, no, actually the FA were looking to adopt a similar model in the Premiership, which is the strongest league of the most popular sport in the world.
'"
No they weren't.
There was a rumour going round that the ever growing number of foreign owners wanted to protect their 'investments' in teams and make the Premier League a closed shop. The FA said that this could happen, but only if a majority of teams voted for a rule change to scrap the existing promotion/relegation method. It turned out to be a load of hot air, and no votes were ever asked for, as the owners of Premier League teams didn't want to scrap promotion and relegation.
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If Harlequins can be a Superleague club so can Doncaster. />
As for teams not applying for Superleague, they shouldn't have the choice, or even have to choose for that matter. />
If they finish top of the Championship, they are in Superleague whether they like it or not. />
How could such as Fev (or Batley for that matter, given some backing .... and they would get Sky money) do much worse than the Crusaders or Harlequins?
Superleague is just like a gentleman's club, if your face fits your in and if it doesn't your out and that is just not fair. />
The fact that most clubs won't get there is immaterial, the fact that they realise they probably won't get there is immaterial. />
Going back to football, Swansea and Norwich are doing well in the premiership. />
It is never certain that they will go straight back down. />
And even if they do, the following season could be exciting if they go back up again. />
And so it should be in Superleague, not 3 year protectionism. />
We could lose any one of Wakefield, Harlequins, Salford or Widnes to be replaced by such as Fev, Halifax, Sheffield or the like and where would be the damage in that?
None!
Someone has to finish bottom and be relegated, not feather-bedded. |
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If Harlequins can be a Superleague club so can Doncaster. />
As for teams not applying for Superleague, they shouldn't have the choice, or even have to choose for that matter. />
If they finish top of the Championship, they are in Superleague whether they like it or not. />
How could such as Fev (or Batley for that matter, given some backing .... and they would get Sky money) do much worse than the Crusaders or Harlequins?
Superleague is just like a gentleman's club, if your face fits your in and if it doesn't your out and that is just not fair. />
The fact that most clubs won't get there is immaterial, the fact that they realise they probably won't get there is immaterial. />
Going back to football, Swansea and Norwich are doing well in the premiership. />
It is never certain that they will go straight back down. />
And even if they do, the following season could be exciting if they go back up again. />
And so it should be in Superleague, not 3 year protectionism. />
We could lose any one of Wakefield, Harlequins, Salford or Widnes to be replaced by such as Fev, Halifax, Sheffield or the like and where would be the damage in that?
None!
Someone has to finish bottom and be relegated, not feather-bedded. | |
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Quote ="Stand-Offish"If Harlequins can be a Superleague club so can Doncaster. />
As for teams not applying for Superleague, they shouldn't have the choice, or even have to choose for that matter. />
If they finish top of the Championship, they are in Superleague whether they like it or not. />
How could such as Fev (or Batley for that matter, given some backing .... and they would get Sky money) do much worse than the Crusaders or Harlequins?
Superleague is just like a gentleman's club, if your face fits your in and if it doesn't your out and that is just not fair. />
The fact that most clubs won't get there is immaterial, the fact that they realise they probably won't get there is immaterial. />
Going back to football, Swansea and Norwich are doing well in the premiership. />
It is never certain that they will go straight back down. />
And even if they do, the following season could be exciting if they go back up again. />
And so it should be in Superleague, not 3 year protectionism. />
We could lose any one of Wakefield, Harlequins, Salford or Widnes to be replaced by such as Fev, Halifax, Sheffield or the like and where would be the damage in that?
None!
Someone has to finish bottom and be relegated, not ">feather-bedded.'" could not agree more.
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Quote ="Stand-Offish"If Harlequins can be a Superleague club so can Doncaster. />
As for teams not applying for Superleague, they shouldn't have the choice, or even have to choose for that matter. />
If they finish top of the Championship, they are in Superleague whether they like it or not. />
How could such as Fev (or Batley for that matter, given some backing .... and they would get Sky money) do much worse than the Crusaders or Harlequins?
Superleague is just like a gentleman's club, if your face fits your in and if it doesn't your out and that is just not fair. />
The fact that most clubs won't get there is immaterial, the fact that they realise they probably won't get there is immaterial. />
Going back to football, Swansea and Norwich are doing well in the premiership. />
It is never certain that they will go straight back down. />
And even if they do, the following season could be exciting if they go back up again. />
And so it should be in Superleague, not 3 year protectionism. />
We could lose any one of Wakefield, Harlequins, Salford or Widnes to be replaced by such as Fev, Halifax, Sheffield or the like and where would be the damage in that?
None!
Someone has to finish bottom and be relegated, not ">feather-bedded.'" could not agree more.
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If the FA are looking to use the same system as the RFL do you think that all the other league clubs outside of the premiership would allow the FA to do what the RFL have done in the past ie to fast track new teams straight in to the SL or in footballs case straight in to the premiership?
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| Quote ="GeoffRoebuck"If the FA are looking to use the same system as the RFL do you think that all the other league clubs outside of the premiership would allow the FA to do what the RFL have done in the past ie to fast track new teams straight in to the SL or in footballs case straight in to the premiership?'"
It would NEVER happen---and it SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED in the RFL as far as i'm concerned.
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I am very much in agreement with Geoff, Dragonfan, and Stand-Offish on this one. They make some very good and valid points. />
Where are clubs without hope ... and I don't mean hope three years down the line?
It must be soul-destroying for the likes of Featherstone who must prove themselves over three years or more to justify getting promoted. In the mean time they run the risk of losing their better players to Super League which means, in effect, that they have to run like hell to stand still. />
The structure of rugby is somewhat different to football in that the teams who are promoted from the Championship to the Premiership are full-time; whereas this doesn't apply in rugby. It wouldn't be good for the game, or the clubs, if the promoted team was almost certain to get relegated, which in most cases is probably what would happen.
Personally, with regards to rugby, I would exempt the promoted side from relegation for one season. />
I know this flies in the face of competition but because of the gulf between Super League and Part-time rugby, it is the only realistic way to avoid the straight up, straight down problem. />
The present regime of franchises is wrong. It smacks too much of a closed shop. Straight up and straight back down wouldn't be good either. A compromise somewhere in between is necessary. />
If we continue to rip the heart out of rugby league amongst the part-time clubs, the game will enter a serious decline. The decline may have already set in but the worst effects won't be felt for some time to come. If the RFL don't recognise the problem very quickly, and do something soon, it could be too late to do anything about it! |
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I am very much in agreement with Geoff, Dragonfan, and Stand-Offish on this one. They make some very good and valid points. />
Where are clubs without hope ... and I don't mean hope three years down the line?
It must be soul-destroying for the likes of Featherstone who must prove themselves over three years or more to justify getting promoted. In the mean time they run the risk of losing their better players to Super League which means, in effect, that they have to run like hell to stand still. />
The structure of rugby is somewhat different to football in that the teams who are promoted from the Championship to the Premiership are full-time; whereas this doesn't apply in rugby. It wouldn't be good for the game, or the clubs, if the promoted team was almost certain to get relegated, which in most cases is probably what would happen.
Personally, with regards to rugby, I would exempt the promoted side from relegation for one season. />
I know this flies in the face of competition but because of the gulf between Super League and Part-time rugby, it is the only realistic way to avoid the straight up, straight down problem. />
The present regime of franchises is wrong. It smacks too much of a closed shop. Straight up and straight back down wouldn't be good either. A compromise somewhere in between is necessary. />
If we continue to rip the heart out of rugby league amongst the part-time clubs, the game will enter a serious decline. The decline may have already set in but the worst effects won't be felt for some time to come. If the RFL don't recognise the problem very quickly, and do something soon, it could be too late to do anything about it! | |
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I think the future of the game would be best served by all teams returning to a part time situation. SL clubs would benefit from vastly reducing their wage bills and it would not become such a massive gap to overcome for any promoted CC side. It would also make it easier for a promoted team to recruit players.
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Quote ="rupert bear"I think the future of the game would be best served by all teams returning to a part time situation. SL clubs would benefit from vastly reducing their wage bills and it would not become such a massive gap to overcome for any promoted CC side. It would also make it easier for a promoted team to recruit players.'" />
I have a lot of sympathy with most of your arguments RB but not this one. />
IMO every club should be striving to be professional
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Quote ="rupert bear"I think the future of the game would be best served by all teams returning to a part time situation. SL clubs would benefit from vastly reducing their wage bills and it would not become such a massive gap to overcome for any promoted CC side. It would also make it easier for a promoted team to recruit players.'" />
I have a lot of sympathy with most of your arguments RB but not this one. />
IMO every club should be striving to be professional
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agreed part time is not the way id rather see everyone fulltime so the game improves throughoutthe leagues not drops standards or one league gets far far superior which is whats happening
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When we went full time under JCW is was a complete disaster !
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| Quote ="weighman"When we went full time under JCW is was a complete disaster !'"
I think that was more about how it was done, rather than it being done. We had a coach that thought being full time meant getting your players to carry trees up hills all day everyday
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| Quote ="Jemmo"I think that was more about how it was done, rather than it being done. We had a coach that thought being full time meant getting your players to carry trees up hills all day everyday'"
The less said about that period of time the better i'd have thought.
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we went to big to soon I dont think anyone had done there homework behind the scenes if you know how much contract mney your paying and can budget accordingly on tv money and such like then it can work, the money has to filtered down more fairly not just get a big bulk give it to sl clubs and give rest of leagues pennys how are others ment to compete
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We were a joke , talked about Super duper League at one meeting and at the next we went bust. />
Thank god we are more realistic under the current regime.(that is a complement by the way) ! |
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We were a joke , talked about Super duper League at one meeting and at the next we went bust. />
Thank god we are more realistic under the current regime.(that is a complement by the way) ! | |
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| Player Coach | 18610 | No
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| Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote ="mr-rugby"we went to big to soon I dont think anyone had done there homework behind the scenes if you know how much contract mney your paying and can budget accordingly on tv money and such like then it can work, the money has to filtered down more fairly not just get a big bulk give it to sl clubs and give rest of leagues pennys how are others ment to compete'"
We were also crap, which didn't help.
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| International Star | 1304 | No
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| Oct 2011 | 13 years | |
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dont beat about the bush stand offish, say what you mean  www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_lol.gif" alt=" icon_lol.gif" title="Laughing" /> |
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dont beat about the bush stand offish, say what you mean www.rlfans.com/images/smilies//icon_lol.gif" alt=" icon_lol.gif" title="Laughing" /> | |
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| Player Coach | 769 | No
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| Jan 2009 | 16 years | |
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tbh crap was putting it mildly - that first cas game was a humiliation, made worse for me as some friends of mine at sixth form had gone as they knew one of the dancers if i remember correctly, I joined the conversation midway through excitedly putting in my two penith thinking I had found fellow fans to talk with only to find out my mistake and try weakly to explain that rugby league isn't normally that bad. />
Personally I think we lost many potential fans as a lot of people coming through weren't necessarily rugby league supporters, but they might have been afterwards if we had put on a show (and by that I mean an entertaining match, not all that rubbish beforehand) |
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tbh crap was putting it mildly - that first cas game was a humiliation, made worse for me as some friends of mine at sixth form had gone as they knew one of the dancers if i remember correctly, I joined the conversation midway through excitedly putting in my two penith thinking I had found fellow fans to talk with only to find out my mistake and try weakly to explain that rugby league isn't normally that bad. />
Personally I think we lost many potential fans as a lot of people coming through weren't necessarily rugby league supporters, but they might have been afterwards if we had put on a show (and by that I mean an entertaining match, not all that rubbish beforehand) | |
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| Player Coach | 18610 | No
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| Feb 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Aug 2024 | Jul 2024 | LINK |
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Quote ="AdamH"tbh crap was putting it mildly - that first cas game was a humiliation, made worse for me as some friends of mine at sixth form had gone as they knew one of the dancers if i remember correctly, I joined the conversation midway through excitedly putting in my two penith thinking I had found fellow fans to talk with only to find out my mistake and try weakly to explain that rugby league isn't normally that bad. />
Personally I think we lost many potential fans as a lot of people coming through weren't necessarily rugby league supporters, but they might have been afterwards if we had put on a show (and by that I mean an entertaining match, not all that rubbish beforehand)'"
I cringe when I recall that era. />
There were some good individual players, but the side were assembled when the coach was still in Australia, in his absence. />
And even with communications with the antipodes, how the hell could he have had any serious input. />
So he got a side that someone else assembled to work with and no doubt he quickly regretted that, when he found out that they were far from a cohesive outfit. />
Is he still a coach Keiran Dempsey?
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Quote ="AdamH"tbh crap was putting it mildly - that first cas game was a humiliation, made worse for me as some friends of mine at sixth form had gone as they knew one of the dancers if i remember correctly, I joined the conversation midway through excitedly putting in my two penith thinking I had found fellow fans to talk with only to find out my mistake and try weakly to explain that rugby league isn't normally that bad. />
Personally I think we lost many potential fans as a lot of people coming through weren't necessarily rugby league supporters, but they might have been afterwards if we had put on a show (and by that I mean an entertaining match, not all that rubbish beforehand)'"
I cringe when I recall that era. />
There were some good individual players, but the side were assembled when the coach was still in Australia, in his absence. />
And even with communications with the antipodes, how the hell could he have had any serious input. />
So he got a side that someone else assembled to work with and no doubt he quickly regretted that, when he found out that they were far from a cohesive outfit. />
Is he still a coach Keiran Dempsey?
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