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| Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"If LFC truly believed in Suarez's innocence then they would have fought the verdict and taken it to an appeal.'"
I think you have to have a look at what the grounds for appeal are/were. I'd have to find the piece again if you were interested, but I'm fairly sure the grounds for appeal were very small and limited, almost pointless. |
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| Quote J.T="J.T"This sums it up for me. Had this been done straight away the issue would have been done with in a matter of days.'"
No, I don't think it would mate. The media would have kept it going no matter what. They started this whole Scouse v Manc crap forty years ago in the first place. Of course all the yokels from one horse pits all over the country with no connection to either city and who never or hardly ever went to Anfield or OT felt the need to join in in the last twenty five years or so. This is just the latest chapter. |
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| Quote CORNISH="CORNISH"did i say they werent, i said CONVICTED. i ll spell it slowly so you can understand the difference.
C O N V I C T E D.
i also said previous seasons. you really must learn to read. at least half term is only a week i believe. maybe ask teacher for extra reading lessons when you get back to school, you really should have advanced from janet and john by now.'"
You wrote this
'BIG FAT ZERO arrests at anfield previously.'
You really are thick. |
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| Quote CORNISH="CORNISH"so its ok for mancs not to shake hands, but not LFC players. just want to clarify.'"
just to clarify, if your brother had been a victim of racist abuse, and your mate had been a victim of racist abuse, and you'd just seen your mate handshake's refused by the person found to have racially abused them, what would you do? |
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| Quote Ian 77 Redux="Ian 77 Redux"You wrote this
'BIG FAT ZERO arrests at anfield previously.'
You really are thick.'"
correct.
and i am thick!!!! |
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| Quote flipper="flipper"just to clarify, if your brother had been a victim of racist abuse, and your mate had been a victim of racist abuse, and you'd just seen your mate handshake's refused by the person found to have racially abused them, what would you do?'"
so the WHOLE manc team did not shake his hand???????????? |
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Quote CORNISH="CORNISH"so the WHOLE manc team did not shake his hand????????????'"
what?
I'd just walk away from this thread if i were you, you are coming out this debacle with less credibility than LFC themselves
m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2 ... pe=article |
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Quote CORNISH="CORNISH"so the WHOLE manc team did not shake his hand????????????'"
what?
I'd just walk away from this thread if i were you, you are coming out this debacle with less credibility than LFC themselves
m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2 ... pe=article | |
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| Quote flipper="flipper"m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/11/liverpool-kenny-dalglish-luis-suarez?cat=football&type=article'"
Taylor is a pr*ck mate, you may enjoy reading what he writes but that News Frames has embarrassed him on a couple of occasions. He's entitled to his opinions, but he's clearly biased to United and he's basically admitted he doesn't like Liverpool. |
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| Quote Roddy B="Roddy B"Taylor is a pr*ck mate, you may enjoy reading what he writes but that News Frames has embarrassed him on a couple of occasions. He's entitled to his opinions, but he's clearly biased to United and he's basically admitted he doesn't like Liverpool.'"
He's not generally pro United tbf |
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| Quote flipper="flipper"He's not generally pro United tbf'"
I used to think he was alright, generally pretty clever with some decent research done into his work. But this Suarez thing, he and his paper have generally been the leading light with some of the most embarrassing guff going. Seriously, have a read of some of the work that News Frames has done on The Guardian's stuff, that one you just quote, NF said of it "Remarkable. 95% ill-informed smear, 5% information - from the Guardian's "chief football writer" ". Taylor has little to say because he refuses to answer people who take him on with a reasoned argument. I've had a slight debate with him before, he just hit me with the usual guff from the media "negro in an arguments, blah blah blah", even when you try and be reasonable, they're still hard work. |
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Phil Neville really picks his targets doesn't. Another rousing moment today when he snapped Ashley Cole in half to set up Everton's second goal. Much like the challenge on Christiano Ronaldo a few years back, it really got the place bouncing. The 'thwack' sound was fantastic.
Much like City a couple of weeks ago, Chelsea had a lot of possession but never really crafted anything more than the odd half chance. They don't look like a team trying to rally around their manager to keep him in his job like Arsenal do. There was just no urgency about their play and they seemed a bit too willing to accept defeat today. The commentators today stated Chelsea will need to move Torres on this summer, but after the 3 years he's had, how much of the £50m are they likely to recover? I really can't see a top side taking a chance on him.
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| Quote Roddy B="Roddy B"I think you have to have a look at what the grounds for appeal are/were. I'd have to find the piece again if you were interested, but I'm fairly sure the grounds for appeal were very small and limited, almost pointless.'"
I just don't buy it.
If Suarez is as innocent as LFC claim then there is no way that you'd have waived your appeal. If the hearing was flawed then you'd have lodged the appeal and then asked for the flaws in the initial hearing to have been eradicated. If it was true that Evra was being coached and talked to while the video was being played, while Suarez was having to wing it then that alone should have been grounds for Suarez to have a fresh hearing.
And actually, if Evra was having a preferential way to present his evidence, what were Suarez's lawyers doing allowing this to go on?
IMO the only reason that LFC wouldn't appeal is if they know the video evidence shows that Suarez spoke to him numerous times and there's no way they can get around that.
So instead of appealing, the evidence proving him guilty again and the verdict being beyond doubt, you waived your appeal and have instead chosen to insist on his innocence in the media.
That works for you, and all the other LFC supporters who just don't want to believe he did it, but it works for practically no one else. |
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As I said, I'd have to re-read what the grounds for appeal were/are, but I don't recall them being particularly good for the situation Suarez was in. Also, I'm pretty sure Liverpool wrote to the FA to ask for changes with the system due to being displeased with how it was handled.
The biggest problem for our fans seems to be the lack of evidence. A lot of fans were always going to defend him, but when there's a lack of evidence proving what Evra said, and Suarez continues to maintain his evidence, it's left things still massively open to interpretation. That's still what it effectively is, word vs. word, people for some reason can't accept that Suarez has continued to maintain his innocence after it all. People churn out similar stuff to the media "he's admitted it", "the linguistic experts said what he said is racist" and "he was found guilty of racism". It's nonsense of the highest order, even if you don't agree with Suarez or what has happened, there's no excuse for sheer idiocy and making stuff up.
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Suarez is a disgrace to football and Liverpool have messed up very badly in this affair.
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| Quote Saddened!="Saddened!"Phil Neville really picks his targets doesn't. Another rousing moment today when he snapped Ashley Cole in half to set up Everton's second goal. Much like the challenge on Christiano Ronaldo a few years back, it really got the place bouncing. The 'thwack' sound was fantastic.
Much like City a couple of weeks ago, Chelsea had a lot of possession but never really crafted anything more than the odd half chance. They don't look like a team trying to rally around their manager to keep him in his job like Arsenal do. There was just no urgency about their play and they seemed a bit too willing to accept defeat today. The commentators today stated Chelsea will need to move Torres on this summer, but after the 3 years he's had, how much of the £50m are they likely to recover? I really can't see a top side taking a chance on him.'"
What's changed at Everton recently? Looking like they might be in a relegation scrap a few weeks ago, now sat in 10th having beaten Chelsea and City without conceeding.
Also, why can't they play as well before January as they can after it, this happens every season? |
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PFA
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17000125
Quote
Professional Footballers Association chief executive Gordon Taylor says Liverpool's owners should deal with the fall-out of Luis Suarez's refusal to shake the hand of Patrice Evra.
Liverpool striker Suarez ignored Evra's offer before Saturday's game.
The club is owned by Fenway Sports Group , headed by John W Henry .
And Taylor said: "It is a matter for the owners. This has to be dealt with at the highest level to resolve this festering mess."
It was the first meeting of the two since Suarez was suspended for racially abusing Evra .
The Uruguayan served an eight-match ban over the incident at Anfield in October.
It had been thought that Suarez and Evra had agreed with their respective managers to take part in the mandatory pre-match handshakes - which are part of the FA's Respect campaign .
Taylor told BBC Radio 5 live : "If he [Suarez is going to ignore the decision of a manager then he has to be disciplined - or you get the tail wagging the dog."
Taylor refused to be drawn into what sanction he thought the club should take but added who go on the pitch with the players and they would have wondered what was going on."
The PFA head said the support of Kenny Dalglish and the club might have made the row worse.
He added: "Such a support and denial of any liability has probably encouraged what happened today. I'm extremely concerned that it has reached this level now. It's going to have to be sorted by the FA, the Premier League, the PFA, the League Managers' Association.
"There's great rivalry which is no bad thing between clubs and cities but this has escalated beyond that."
Asked if Liverpool had been responsive to their the PFA's approaches, Taylor said: "I would have to say that in the very beginning, no they weren't, so as a result this has developed into where it has.
"It's my job to try to stop such issues escalating.
"At the very beginning I approached both clubs but it wasn't possible to get that reconciliation or any acceptance of culpability or apology and, from that time on, it's just escalated."
PFA chairman, Northampton Town's Clarke Carlisle, says the refusal to shake hands "undermined" the Respect campaign.
He said: "This was a chance to signal to thousands of fans in the ground that the two men had settled things in a sensible manner. This stupid snub has exacerbated things.
"I'm bitterly disappointed. This was a chance to draw a line in the sand.
"We expect all our members to cross over the white line and represent themselves, their club and our national game with an element of pride, dignity and respect."
Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has branded Suarez " a disgrace " for his refusal to clear the air with Evra, but Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish said any attempts to blame his forward were "bang out of order".
United won the game with two goals from Wayne Rooney, while Suarez scored an 80th-minute consolation for the Merseysiders. |
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PFA
www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17000125
Quote
Professional Footballers Association chief executive Gordon Taylor says Liverpool's owners should deal with the fall-out of Luis Suarez's refusal to shake the hand of Patrice Evra.
Liverpool striker Suarez ignored Evra's offer before Saturday's game.
The club is owned by Fenway Sports Group , headed by John W Henry .
And Taylor said: "It is a matter for the owners. This has to be dealt with at the highest level to resolve this festering mess."
It was the first meeting of the two since Suarez was suspended for racially abusing Evra .
The Uruguayan served an eight-match ban over the incident at Anfield in October.
It had been thought that Suarez and Evra had agreed with their respective managers to take part in the mandatory pre-match handshakes - which are part of the FA's Respect campaign .
Taylor told BBC Radio 5 live : "If he [Suarez is going to ignore the decision of a manager then he has to be disciplined - or you get the tail wagging the dog."
Taylor refused to be drawn into what sanction he thought the club should take but added who go on the pitch with the players and they would have wondered what was going on."
The PFA head said the support of Kenny Dalglish and the club might have made the row worse.
He added: "Such a support and denial of any liability has probably encouraged what happened today. I'm extremely concerned that it has reached this level now. It's going to have to be sorted by the FA, the Premier League, the PFA, the League Managers' Association.
"There's great rivalry which is no bad thing between clubs and cities but this has escalated beyond that."
Asked if Liverpool had been responsive to their the PFA's approaches, Taylor said: "I would have to say that in the very beginning, no they weren't, so as a result this has developed into where it has.
"It's my job to try to stop such issues escalating.
"At the very beginning I approached both clubs but it wasn't possible to get that reconciliation or any acceptance of culpability or apology and, from that time on, it's just escalated."
PFA chairman, Northampton Town's Clarke Carlisle, says the refusal to shake hands "undermined" the Respect campaign.
He said: "This was a chance to signal to thousands of fans in the ground that the two men had settled things in a sensible manner. This stupid snub has exacerbated things.
"I'm bitterly disappointed. This was a chance to draw a line in the sand.
"We expect all our members to cross over the white line and represent themselves, their club and our national game with an element of pride, dignity and respect."
Manchester United manager Sir Alex Ferguson has branded Suarez " a disgrace " for his refusal to clear the air with Evra, but Liverpool boss Kenny Dalglish said any attempts to blame his forward were "bang out of order".
United won the game with two goals from Wayne Rooney, while Suarez scored an 80th-minute consolation for the Merseysiders. | |
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IMO, if they wanted some sort of signal to be made, they really should have gone about it in a better way than they did. Leaving it for two players to decide on shaking hands is utterly moronic from the FA or whoever decides. They should have forced the players to meet before it to 'clear the air' if they wanted a sensible outcome. If you've heard/read anything from Suarez, he's clearly not willing to accept it and he continues to maintain his innocence. If the FA wanted to defuse it, they could have had the players meet up and tried to make some sort of resolve, so that when the handshake came, both players could have agreed to do it.
Have any people watched the footage of the handshake? It's so weird I can't explain it. Evra wanted to shake his hand, you could tell by his reaction after it, but I actually think he wanted to talk to Suarez or say something, as he seemed to stare and move the hand downwards to attract eye-contact (he follows Suarez with his eyes throughout the whole thing). Suarez completely blanked him and went straight past. I'm not saying that Evra refused to shake his hand, but he does move his hand, IMO, to actually draw the attention of Suarez. IMO, Evra didn't look comfortable, almost indecisive, if you will. The whole thing could have been made much more easier if the FA or whoever had taken steps to try and sort the whole thing. Suarez and Evra clearly didn't look comfortable with it, and the behavior of both players during the game (Suarez kicking the ball in frustration, Evra's reaction at the end) shown both were clearly angry/frustrated. If people want a link to a decent video, just search (hilariously titled) "Evra - Sly drop of the arm to screw Suarez - Handshake incident 11/02/2012" on that video website, you get a fairly good slow mo of the incident to see that it wasn't quite right, Evra seemed to be expecting more than a handshake from Suarez, be it a word, a look or some sort of pause, but he got nothing.
Still, it's sad that such a small thing like a hand shake was placed with so much emphasis. It really is a nothing thing that players now do in an act of routine over an act of respect, there's little thought in it and it's often rushed. If the FA wanted a message to be displayed, they could have taken more steps than they did to defuse the situation.
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The FA shouldn't have needed to have been involved. If Suarez had offered his hand then there would be no issue.
IMO the FA need to scrap the handshakes anyway. It's now an optional item, which defeats the whole, lame purpose of it in the first place.
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| Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"The FA shouldn't have needed to have been involved. If Suarez had offered his hand then there would be no issue.
IMO the FA need to scrap the handshakes anyway. It's now an optional item, which defeats the whole, lame purpose of it in the first place.'"
But that's the thing, LGJM, the [ireason[/i Suarez didn't offer his arm is because he feels Evra has lied/exaggerated. Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant, because it's Suarez's POV and he's entitled to that. Suarez has done nothing but maintain innocence since the ban was handed out, Liverpool have done nothing but defend him since the ban was out, Dalglish has done nothing but defend him. Whether it's right or wrong, it happened and little leadership was shown by way of the FA, PFA, Kick It Out or anybody else, the thing has lacked leadership throughout and it's been able to boil over completely. As I said, the FA have seen quite clearly that Liverpool haven't been happy, nor has Suarez, so why they'd allow it to continue all the way to the handshake, knowing full well the media would blow over if something happened, is stupid. Suarez could have shook his hand, yes, but would you have if you held the same view of events as Suarez does? I know I wouldn't, I wouldn't even look at the person if I felt I'd been falsely accused by somebody and then punished.
The FA could have taken over and defused things, or, like the QPR game, removed the thing completely to remove the emphasis and hype. |
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You had right to appeal. You chose not to appeal. Lame excuses don't wash.
But even ignoring that. If Suarez wasn't going to shake his hand he should have informed the club and they should have informed the FA. Then there would have been no handshakes and the incident wouldn't have happened.
Instead the handshakes went along and Suarez snubbed him. Put the blame on the FA all you like, but this is all Suarez.
Personally I think he should have been given an instant yellow card and that should have been it. But the ref fluffed his decision and now we have to deal with all this fall-out. Thanks Luis.
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| Quote Roddy B="Roddy B"Suarez could have shook his hand, yes, but would you have if you held the same view of events as Suarez does? I know I wouldn't, I wouldn't even look at the person if I felt I'd been falsely accused by somebody and then punished.'"
If I was falsely accused then I would have appealed. And appealed. And appealed as much as possible.
If it was then looking useless I would have accepted the verdict, made a statement saying I completely disagreed with the verdict but could only do what's best and moved on with my career. I would have given as clear as possible version of events as I saw it.
If, after that, I was facing Evra then I would have announced it to my manager that I wasn't going through the handshakes as I couldn't shake Evra's hand. |
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| Quote Lord God Jose Mourinho="Lord God Jose Mourinho"
IMO the only reason that LFC wouldn't appeal is if they know the video evidence shows that Suarez spoke to him numerous times and there's no way they can get around that.
So instead of appealing, the evidence proving him guilty again and the verdict being beyond doubt, you waived your appeal and have instead chosen to insist on his innocence in the media.'"
The report stated on the balance of probabilities that he was guilty. They're hardly likely to produce a result at is beyond doubt on appeal are they?
I think the club felt (rightly or wrongly) the whole process was unjust, an appeal would have come back with the same result but an increased ban. Where do you go from there? Sports arbitration court? While they were mounting a case Suarez would still have to take the ban and if Liverpool won they'd make the FA look foolish but they wouldn't get the games he missed back. It seems a bit pointless really. I can understand why they didn't bother. |
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We've all read the report, Suarez should have got more than 8 games.
His actions now should lead to him banned for the rest of the season.
Evra to get a couple of games for his after match celebrations.
Dalglish to get a lobotomy.
Ferguson to get a hypocrite warning.
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| Feb 2010 | 15 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2013 | Oct 2013 | LINK |
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www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... uis-suarez
"In the end, it was difficult to know what was the more depressing and shocking: that moment when Luis Suárez walked past Patrice Evra, refused to shake his hand and reminded us this is a man whose brains are all in his feet, or afterwards when Kenny Dalglish tried to stare down the questions before coming up with a response that was so outlandishly flawed it made you wonder where he was storing all the qualities which we once associated with him?
What Suárez did was callous, premeditated and dimwitted to the point that, if Liverpool had any sense, they would have condemned it on the spot and at least salvaged a semblance of dignity. Instead, they reverted to their default setting whenever Suárez comes under scrutiny: this half-baked conspiracy that everyone is against them and that the only way to combat this is to go on the attack themselves. Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing."
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www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog ... uis-suarez
"In the end, it was difficult to know what was the more depressing and shocking: that moment when Luis Suárez walked past Patrice Evra, refused to shake his hand and reminded us this is a man whose brains are all in his feet, or afterwards when Kenny Dalglish tried to stare down the questions before coming up with a response that was so outlandishly flawed it made you wonder where he was storing all the qualities which we once associated with him?
What Suárez did was callous, premeditated and dimwitted to the point that, if Liverpool had any sense, they would have condemned it on the spot and at least salvaged a semblance of dignity. Instead, they reverted to their default setting whenever Suárez comes under scrutiny: this half-baked conspiracy that everyone is against them and that the only way to combat this is to go on the attack themselves. Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing."
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Board Member | 7494 | No
Team
Selected |
| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Jan 2003 | 22 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Sep 2016 | Apr 2016 | LINK |
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Over many years of playing Saturday and Sunday football you get a good idea of the type of people who refuse to shake hands after a game Saurez is clearly one of those.
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