you'll have to do better than that

But how anybody read that document and said Evra was a 'reliable witness' was beyond me. It's alleged Evra got to study tape to 'perfect' his hearing, which would obviously make him look 'impressive'. Evra changed the words Suarez allegedly used three times, he told the ref he called him black, his team mates ni**er and the hearing negro. How is that reliable? How can anybody make an accusation yet change it three times? He claims he didn't like to use the word ni**er, but he was quite happy to use it in the dressing room afterwards and there's a video of him happily using it when he played for Monaco. You only have to do a wee bit of searching on the internet to find plenty of balanced articles offering both sides of the story, I've read plenty myself and I don't think it's at all foolish to think that the judges came out with the wrong decision.



As I said, Suarez's biggest weakness was Comolli and Kuyt's evidence, as they added the word 'you are' in their interpretation, yet Evra was never asked why he changed his word that he accused Suarez with, which for me is about as big a flaw as you can get.



So much of the document is wide open to interpretation, Liverpool's legal team clearly done a poor job, nobody can deny that, but there was very little solid evidence in there. Since then, Suarez has continued to maintain innocence, so why can't I believe him? Why can't Liverpool fans believe him? And why should he just wipe the slate clean with Evra and start a fresh? I know I wouldn't if I was in Suarez's position, if anything my blood would be boiling and I'd want to rip his head off for getting me done for something I believe I didn't do.



That's what it all boils down to, but so much of the British public cannot for the life of them accept it. One man believes he was falsely accused, he continues to take that stance, but he is condemned nationally for not taking it on the chin and getting on with it. So much emphasis is put on a handshake, but I believe most of the people criticising Suarez would have done the same thing in the situation. Forgiveness is something so many people preach, yet don't always do.

So you reckon he's morally not done anything wrong with what he said. Fine, why can't he acknowledge that the word could be misinterpreted as a racial insult as I posted above? "I didn't mean it racially and apologise if it's taken that way". etc etc?

Just read a cracking quote in an article by the guardian.



"Outraged by everything, ashamed of nothing"



Sums up Liverpools conduct over the last few months very nicely in my eyes.

Anybody fancy talking about the game or football?

United now 19 points ahead of Liverpool. Nice number 19.

Suarez has said he's sorry for anybody that was offended by the word, but he maintained that he never meant it in an offensive sense. He hasn't apologised to Evra because he feels Evra has lied/exaggerated.



People saying it could all have been dealt with if Suarez/Liverpool made an early apology, but I don't think it could have. Evra put in a complaint and the FA have their way of doing things, I don't think an open apology for any mistakes would have been accepted, especially on a case like racism and especially when you consider the level of racism in Evra's complaint.

If LFC truly believed in Suarez's innocence then they would have fought the verdict and taken it to an appeal.



Instead they accepted the verdict but bitched and moaned about practically everything since.



Of course, this makes sense to LFC, because there's a conspiracy against them which has meant that the whole process was set up against them and there's no way they can fight it.



I supported Suarez until reading the report of the tribunal. You just cannot support Suarez after that. I'm not totally convinced about what went on. I think two opponents talking smack to each other in a penalty area, using a second language of one of the people, it's fraught with difficulty to judge what's gone on. But on reading the report Evra's version of events seems consistent with the video footage they have, Suarez's really wasn't.



I just think that if Liverpool wanted to dispute the verdict they damn well should have appealed. It just doesn't make sense that they feel that an injustice has taken place, but they'll accept the verdict, then insist on his innocence. My view is that they know he did it, they know he'll be found guilty again, so they are simply going to leave it at the one hearing and chip away at that verdict with their whining.

so its ok for mancs not to shake hands, but not LFC players. just want to clarify.

Quote Ian 77 Redux="Ian 77 Redux"Someone was arrested at Anfield the other week you idiot. www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... nited.html'" did i say they werent, i said CONVICTED. i ll spell it slowly so you can understand the difference. C O N V I C T E D. i also said previous seasons. you really must learn to read. at least half term is only a week i believe. maybe ask teacher for extra reading lessons when you get back to school, you really should have advanced from janet and john by now.

Quote Ian 77 Redux="Ian 77 Redux"Someone was arrested at Anfield the other week you idiot. www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/footba ... nited.html'" did i say they werent, i said CONVICTED. i ll spell it slowly so you can understand the difference. C O N V I C T E D. i also said previous seasons. you really must learn to read. at least half term is only a week i believe. maybe ask teacher for extra reading lessons when you get back to school, you really should have advanced from janet and john by now.

I think you have to have a look at what the grounds for appeal are/were. I'd have to find the piece again if you were interested, but I'm fairly sure the grounds for appeal were very small and limited, almost pointless.

No, I don't think it would mate. The media would have kept it going no matter what. They started this whole Scouse v Manc crap forty years ago in the first place. Of course all the yokels from one horse pits all over the country with no connection to either city and who never or hardly ever went to Anfield or OT felt the need to join in in the last twenty five years or so. This is just the latest chapter.

You wrote this



'BIG FAT ZERO arrests at anfield previously.'



You really are thick.

just to clarify, if your brother had been a victim of racist abuse, and your mate had been a victim of racist abuse, and you'd just seen your mate handshake's refused by the person found to have racially abused them, what would you do?

correct.

and i am thick!!!!

so the WHOLE manc team did not shake his hand????????????

Quote CORNISH="CORNISH"so the WHOLE manc team did not shake his hand????????????'" what? I'd just walk away from this thread if i were you, you are coming out this debacle with less credibility than LFC themselves m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2 ... pe=article

Quote CORNISH="CORNISH"so the WHOLE manc team did not shake his hand????????????'" what? I'd just walk away from this thread if i were you, you are coming out this debacle with less credibility than LFC themselves m.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2 ... pe=article

Taylor is a pr*ck mate, you may enjoy reading what he writes but that News Frames has embarrassed him on a couple of occasions. He's entitled to his opinions, but he's clearly biased to United and he's basically admitted he doesn't like Liverpool.

He's not generally pro United tbf

I used to think he was alright, generally pretty clever with some decent research done into his work. But this Suarez thing, he and his paper have generally been the leading light with some of the most embarrassing guff going. Seriously, have a read of some of the work that News Frames has done on The Guardian's stuff, that one you just quote, NF said of it "Remarkable. 95% ill-informed smear, 5% information - from the Guardian's "chief football writer" ". Taylor has little to say because he refuses to answer people who take him on with a reasoned argument. I've had a slight debate with him before, he just hit me with the usual guff from the media "negro in an arguments, blah blah blah", even when you try and be reasonable, they're still hard work.

Phil Neville really picks his targets doesn't. Another rousing moment today when he snapped Ashley Cole in half to set up Everton's second goal. Much like the challenge on Christiano Ronaldo a few years back, it really got the place bouncing. The 'thwack' sound was fantastic.



Much like City a couple of weeks ago, Chelsea had a lot of possession but never really crafted anything more than the odd half chance. They don't look like a team trying to rally around their manager to keep him in his job like Arsenal do. There was just no urgency about their play and they seemed a bit too willing to accept defeat today. The commentators today stated Chelsea will need to move Torres on this summer, but after the 3 years he's had, how much of the £50m are they likely to recover? I really can't see a top side taking a chance on him.

I just don't buy it.



If Suarez is as innocent as LFC claim then there is no way that you'd have waived your appeal. If the hearing was flawed then you'd have lodged the appeal and then asked for the flaws in the initial hearing to have been eradicated. If it was true that Evra was being coached and talked to while the video was being played, while Suarez was having to wing it then that alone should have been grounds for Suarez to have a fresh hearing.



And actually, if Evra was having a preferential way to present his evidence, what were Suarez's lawyers doing allowing this to go on?



IMO the only reason that LFC wouldn't appeal is if they know the video evidence shows that Suarez spoke to him numerous times and there's no way they can get around that.



So instead of appealing, the evidence proving him guilty again and the verdict being beyond doubt, you waived your appeal and have instead chosen to insist on his innocence in the media.



That works for you, and all the other LFC supporters who just don't want to believe he did it, but it works for practically no one else.

As I said, I'd have to re-read what the grounds for appeal were/are, but I don't recall them being particularly good for the situation Suarez was in. Also, I'm pretty sure Liverpool wrote to the FA to ask for changes with the system due to being displeased with how it was handled.



The biggest problem for our fans seems to be the lack of evidence. A lot of fans were always going to defend him, but when there's a lack of evidence proving what Evra said, and Suarez continues to maintain his evidence, it's left things still massively open to interpretation. That's still what it effectively is, word vs. word, people for some reason can't accept that Suarez has continued to maintain his innocence after it all. People churn out similar stuff to the media "he's admitted it", "the linguistic experts said what he said is racist" and "he was found guilty of racism". It's nonsense of the highest order, even if you don't agree with Suarez or what has happened, there's no excuse for sheer idiocy and making stuff up.

Suarez is a disgrace to football and Liverpool have messed up very badly in this affair.

What's changed at Everton recently? Looking like they might be in a relegation scrap a few weeks ago, now sat in 10th having beaten Chelsea and City without conceeding.



Also, why can't they play as well before January as they can after it, this happens every season?