I can smell the deep fried calamari with lemon mayonnaise dip from here.

Originally from Weymouth that octopus. Shocking loss for the country letting him go to Germany.

Germany ended that after battering Maradona and co.

Germany were lucky they came up against one of the most ignorant managers at the world cup. Saying that, it seems the majority of the managers at this world cup have made glaringly obvious mistakes, mistakes that were predictable without hindsight.

If he picks the same side he did tonight, Holland will passed off the park, IMO.

I am genuinely not bothered who wins.

However....I would feel very sorry for Holland getting there 3 times and losing 3 times.

Plus there is a little devil in me that wants Spain to carry on with their underachieving.



Nah, it should be good whoever wins, now the usual suspects are out.

Capello?





...and in English Robbie?

Capello and Maradona were pretty terrible. Argentina could have knocked Germany spark out had they had another midfielder next to Mascherano, but he persisted with Tevez despite obvious signs in the Mexico game, where Argentina rode their luck for long periods. As pointed out by Vickery on't beeb, Maradona's problem was he became too passionate and wrapped up in everything, his heart said play Tevez, but anybody picking a team with their head would say a two man midfield is the least any side should put out, but the Argie's went with just Mascherano and it didn't work.



I dunno what you mean about my last point, the point I was making was many managers are making mistakes that were easy to tell, you didn't have to see the result of the mistake to know it was a c*ck up. Capello made a catalog of mistakes but he's still somehow in the job. The Cameroon manager was and is a joke, Domenech surpassed even his own standards, Lippi's second reign was a complete and utter joke, del Bosque has wasted two/three games persisting with Torres when it was clear as day that Spain needed a wide player on the field, Maradona persisted with Mascherano on his own in midfield, taking only two other midfielders, three if you count Pastore. I could go on and on about the glaringly obvious errors managers have made this world cup, it really has been embarrassing for international football. The standard of management and football at this tournament has been woefully short of what we see in the champions league every year.

Liverpool still twinned with Spain these days then through the fact they have Torres? seems all Liverpool

fans i know are nigh-on claiming the world cup belongs

to them. Suppose they're easily confused though considering both shirts are red

Current European Champions, and in the World Cup final.



I wish England would underachieve like that.

Think Spain will win but it has the makings of a good game.



Germany were outplayed by a quality Spanish side who showed why they are number 1 in the world last night. To restrict a side that has scored 8 in their last two games to just one shot on target is the mark of a good team.



I'm hoping for a Dutch win though. What does Paul reckon?

Another boreathon from a WC full of them. I can see the final being the same way too, it's all about systems and being organised now. Teams don't take a chance and play with flair anymore, even the Spanish are fairly dull to watch as they just pass teams to death and are interested it seems in just scoring one goal.



I'm glad it's due to end. I don't really care who wins the final, think i'd rather have the dutch win it.

Yes that's patently obvious....that is recent.

I'm talking historically here. They've had good sides in the past and won next to nothing.....and as such are probably the most underachieved top footballing nation.



They haven't won this world cup yet.....although I heard someone in their camp saying Holland needn't turn up.

Well come on Holland..I say.



And as for England they have a better record than Spain in the world cup.

I'm going to come over all Rafa Benitez here...Spain have won more than England have. Fact.



2 European Championships v 1 World Cup (3-1 in finals too) with 1 World Cup sembo each now.

After all is done will England now admit that they are a second class footballing nation ?

Hopefully. We won't move forward until we swallow our pride.

He's not interested now Germany are out.

I pretty much agree. I really can't remember a World Cup with so many 'incomplete' sides. Either they can attack or defend, but so few both. Many got completely carried away with how good Argentina and Germany were going forward, but TBH if you look at the back 5 of each side I personally only think 1 of the whole 10 is genuinely of WC quality. Goalkeeping in particular has been of poor quality in this tournament.



If Ghana had had a Villa quality finisher I think they could have made the final.

You can come over whatever you like........except I am talking about world cup records....there is a big clue in the title of this thread.

And England have won it....that is the world cup.....and until Sunday....Spain haven't.

And in a medal table you can have as many silvers or bronzes as you like... but one gold gets you a higher spot.

England 1 Spain 0

They were quite excited last night, but then went home fairly early. Saving it up for Sunday I suppose

Webb to ref the final.



Well done Sir!

We're good at something connected with football then?

Well done Howard.

Time to make alternate arrangements.