That's the key here. We already had a pack that struggled occasionally even with our first choice out.



You remove at least 3 starters (first choice 17) plus a few backups and we're really light. Hill and Nsemba are players we shouldn't be seeing 3 and 4 weeks in a row.



We've still got enough to beat any side with our strike power but when a side gets a roll on we're going to really struggle to contain them.

Yep, Hill and Nsemba should be playing the odd game against lower opposite not week in week out at 18.



Mago shouldn’t be playing at all and I think Shorrocks is really struggling in defence and his carries are ineffective.



Smithies is bang out of form too.



Catalans have a brilliant pack and Sam/Pearce played off the back of it so well.

See I think this weak pack is a myth, the games we have lost have been for me down to a lack of cutting edge more than anything, similar to what cost us last season when Leeds knocked us out. That’s not including today by the way when got dominated in all facets including the pack.

Exactly, I think Warrington have just won the games you would expect them to do and have been very consistent but I would be a little worried if I was a Warrington fan that they have lost to Wigan, Saints and Leigh and quite convincingly too. For me it’s anyone’s at the minute and although today was awful from a Wigan point of view I give us as much chance of anyone if we can get a few of our injured forwards back.

We lost today because we tried to out muscle a strong Catalans pack and take the game to them. Our pack isn’t big enough for that game plan.



Tactically we should have been going off +1’s, using jockey plays and drop offs, runs back into the ruck keeping their pack moving and tiring them out exposing gaps with our speed. It was a perfectly winnable game today but poor tactics lost us that game IMO.



I also don’t know what Powell has to do to be dropped. O’Neill must be raging inside.

It's all thoroughly depressing. I've got one and a half NRL games from today left to watch, hoping they'll renew the faith a bit.

The humour of the gallows that one but yes we did make a din for sure

That was bad, Catalan played well but we were just awful, no one comes out of that game with any credit. I know about our injuries etc etc but some of our basic play and skills were shocking today. I am not going to critisise individuals because it was an awful team non-performance.



Some players need to be absolutely hammered in training on basic rugby league skills because too many left them behind today.



ps can Tommy come out of retirement please?

We are top of the league, well we are if we win tomorrow, and I'm not convinced by us one bit. No way we are winning the grand final this season. Catalans v Wigan/saints it will be.

You have got a good chance to win it, as do a number of other clubs including Wigan, im just pointing out that even though we just got tonked we have half of our senior pack out and have shown we can beat the top teams this year, I don’t side with the negativity that we are e and have no chance.

St Helens won SL with a much worse injury crisis that went on all season, not just a couple of weeks. Your squad depth is awful but that’s what you get when you pay a winger marquee money

One tiny positive - French's 1st half try was fantastic - one of the best we've scored all year.

Him going for the one handed put down, then realising the winger was coming back on the pitch so changed his grip.



Great skill.

Yes and another great piece of centre play from King after last week's assist.

They’ve had no injury crisis,, they’ve been gifted a few league titles when nobody gave a because of Covid and lack of injuries, the first season anybody gives a and they’ve crumbled.

From what I can see we are also missing a captain.



Oh and also Briers.

The issue for me is that we have been dire wince we beat Warrington. Not sure what has gone wrong and how we fix it.

Wigan get beat, the board is infiltrated with neanderthals. We win, not a squeak.



Pure envy and jealousy at its finest. They want to be us but can't be.

We lost to a better team on the day,that day isnt every day.

We are missing a few I agree.

But have noticed other teams fans (apart from one lunatic) have said it will be a Wigan v saints/Catalan/whoever GF so they must see something in this team that some of our fans dont.

I for one always try and look up rather than down we are a good team and will win/lose games as others will.

The players prob are feeling sh*t at the min,but will come back firing for the next game .

I for one think we could win the next 2 very important games .

We need to sort out next seasons squad, all this talk about Tyler Dupree will not fix our props. So far this season he has made 1120m out of 14 appearances with 169 carries, so on average per game you’re looking at;



80m per game

6.6 average gain

12 carriers per game.



He averages 24 tackles per game, we need north of 30 and least.



Poor and no better than Magos stats, we need 120m plus per game, average over 8m per drive and 15 carries plus. That’s what kind of prop we need.



We wouldn’t go far wrong than to look at Josh King at Melbourne, not playing rep footy, good stats, type of prop we need.

when?

I don't care what people say about "oh, they measure metres made differently there", I watch the NRL and think Wigan props (and SL props in general, to some extent) are stealing a living. NRL props seem to do bigger minutes, in a tougher comp.

The benchmark for props is Jason Taumalolo or JWH both take it up twice a set and make 100m in the first half of a game. Can the Wigan props not set personal goals to do something similar?



It doesn’t help that Powell takes an extra second with getting the ball from the floor to the man, that second is an extra 1 or 2 metres that the defence line gains before contact therefore in a set we could be 5-10 more metres down the pitch.



I like Kaide Ellis, I think he needs another prop mate to bounce off, he looks like he isn’t enjoying his time here when he’s on the pitch. Like Craig Smith had Pongia to spur him on Ellis needs a fellow Aussie prop to spur him on, bit of competition. I think Ellis could be a very good prop for us if given the right environment and coaching.



I think a lot of the problems within the team stem from the whole edges, pivots and middles classification of players because to pigeon hole players into these categories it takes away their skill, expertise and nous to play rugby league and makes them robots to what the coach wants and if the coach gets it wrong then the team loses.



We need a 6 that is a runner off the 7 or 1, that can put kicks in normally short kicks and has that turn of pace. Field lacks the kicking game and Cust lacks the speed.



We need a 7 with a long kicking game, a massive gob that doesn’t shut up organising, probing, testing, scheming and can spot weaknesses in the defence and use a few plays to build up to a move/attack. Smith has the kicking game and can spot weakness but he lacks the gob and organisation skills and seems to lose confidence pretty quickly, Briers worked wonders with him so appointing another coach that would help Smith would be cheaper than getting rid. I’m thinking someone along the lines of Sean Long, Kevin Brown, Danny a rough etc eg an ex-SL player who could organise with a rugby brain.



We don’t need YouTube props, I’m sick of us buying them. On the pitch we need a metre eating work horse like Terry O’Connor/Coley along side someone with a bit more punch/size/aggression with an offload like your JWH/ Fielden but the impact player should not be a Feka or a lazy 1 drive and an offload and then off.



We need proper back rowers, Isa is too small and I don’t think understands the game enough to be a top drawer back rower, utility player yes. Smithies, Farrell and Shorrocks all lack size. Nsemba lacks experience but looks like the back rower I like, his try in the cup prime example of what a proper back rower can do when they run a good line, a try that only Liam Farrell could have scored.



Loose forward, should be a prop with good hands or a big stand off that can tackle. Smithies is neither, Smithies should be moulded into a hooker in my opinion. Shorrocks is not big enough to play 13 either.

But apart from all that....

I don’t see a usefulness for Shorrocks. I really don’t see where he plays and is effective. He isn’t good enough for a wanna be SL winners side if I’m being brutally honest and he isn’t he only one.