This

No team would ever finish with their full complement if that's a red.



It's actually not even a yellow.

That was not direct it was off the chest first, if anything the Miski one was worse and he got nothing, the pundits reckon the ref bottled it on the Miski one because Shorrocks was a yellow at best.

He doesn't need to be that reckless and give the referee a decision to make. To have a red card in the third big knockout game in 12 months is inexcusable.

Then he should have gone off for a head assessment

I think we've need this for about ten chuffin years. Who was the last prop that fit the above mold? Jeff Lima? Scott Taylor but he was young at the time. George burgess was supposed to be that guy but that didn't work out.



Props win you pots. Has to be priority number 1 for me.

Anything to the head will always get punished Moore bottled the Miski one too

We need balance on those decisions. In the current interpretation of the rules it is a red, but it shouldn't be.



For me, a sin bin.



Red cards should be for intentional, deliberate, malicious contacts to the head.



Shorrocks has put a ball and all big tackle on a smaller player where the impact resulted in contact to the head. He hadnt tried to take his head off. It is a contact sport and one of the joys of the sport is a big hit. We are killing that element of the game with rules like this.



Full credit to KR, but let's not pretend that didn't have a massive influence on the outcome. We were gassed.

I’m convinced I’ll never see a dumber performance than Wakey away, so as I say, that’s not much of a defence for saying today wasn’t as dumb. I can just cut the whole team plenty of slack, that I couldn’t do 2 weeks ago. A man down, in horror conditions and with some appalling reffing decisions (that’s one constant mind) and it would’ve been easy to fall away but the effort was fantastic. I don’t disagree that sadly the smarts just weren’t there but there was absolutely no excuse for that at Wakey, whereas today I can understand it with the fatigue factor. Not giving Harvie Hill any minutes is a head scratcher. If he had that little trust in him, just carry Cust or Hampshire on the bench and cover injuries.

Moore didn’t give the Shorrocks decision!

I've said before on this subject, I follow both codes of the sport and let me tell you these exact same discussions are had across the divide every week about toughening the rules in the modern age around head shots, what is foul play, red cards, etc etc etc. A lot of fans, and even players and coaches, lament about it but this isn't going to change with all the stuff around head and brain injuries and the long term effects of playing rugby, and people need to get real and accept it.



Tackle technique has to change, and this is probably more of an issue for League (traditionally the more collision based version of the sport) than Union, but they're going to have do it. And everyone involved in the sport will have to also accept that unpopular or not this might well mean weaker, softer, more passive defence. Easier to make metres, offload and pass, and so therefore easier to score tries and points. And less of the "biff". That's the journey we're on, I don't see the direction changing.



Harsh or not, Shorrocks was far too upright, was leading more with the shoulder than an arm wrapping tackle, and managed to clout someone in the head. The players adapt, or keep getting red carded.



Mainly though I thought that loss was more about our lack of threat in attack. Yeah it was a wet day, but just one up passive runners as everyone else stood about, then give it to Smith to punt as high as he can in the air, and hope French/Field might eventually come up with some magic, is nowhere near enough. The attacking structure isn't good enough this year, and I don't actually think the biggest problem is not making metres.

And a standoff.

What about Field’s dumb kick over the dead ball line when we were in an excellent position or French’s poor attempt at a drop goal?

We have previous for that.

Spot on Jon. But I would also add that we need more punch in the pack as well.

Field’s kick was rubbish execution and wasn’t needed. French shouldn’t be in a position to take drop goals anyway. Ultimately, this team doesn’t execute big moments in semi finals the vast majority of times they present themselves. I blame coaching for that, then the players for not being able to adapt or use their brains.

I can live with the Shorrocks red because they’re pretty consistent on it now. You’re in more danger of cards playing in tv games, which feels wrong but that’s a different conversation.



I can’t excuse some of the other refereeing decisions, especially in that last 10-15 mins. It’s a tough gig and some calls will be wrong but things like KPP contacting Ryan in the air and the set not being restarted for the Minchella charge down are such simple calls. You know a straightforward call when you see one and don’t even think about what might be given. With KPP I just thought ‘idiot’ and with the charge down I thought we then had a great chance to win it. Some sort of captains challenge needs to come in (although if it would cover that charge down, I’m not sure).

That’s why I thought Nsemba may play.



It’s a tough one who to drop because the back 3 are playing well but Miski got a couple of things wrong in defence so for me he drops out of the 17 next week with Cust coming to 6 and French on the wing.

We lack experienced leaders in situations like these for me. If you look at how Catalans players have come on with Tomkins and Micky Mac in the team and how they follow their every word, we don’t have that in spine positions. We’ve got a young 7, 9 and 13, a guy who isn’t a natural stand off at 6 and Field at 1, who again isn’t hugely experienced in these games and doesn’t seem a massive talker. I think we win that game today with an experienced leader like Sam Tomkins in there.

to be fair Fields kick was the right thing but bad execution and Frenchs was charged down and the offside guy picked it up but was ignored, smiths kick on the 3rd in extra time is unforgivable

Thats three times Peters as outsmarted Peet this year, played three won three Peters 3 Peet 0 Apologies should be Peters 2 Peet 1

agreed, no contact to the head though....was whiplash

its not hard, cover french and field and we have nothing, we rely on their individual brilliance, without them we would be battling wakefield

I have accepted it - I haven't bought a season ticket in a number of years. It's no longer the game I grew up watching and loving.

wigan have always been a hard team to beat on most occasions but today we replecated what you have done for years won a big game without bringing the house down field and french are key to your results play decent you win bottle them up and its game on