Really? I hope you are right but if that team tonight takes the pitch again I am not sure why you expect different.

Our spine was horrendous tonight. 1, 7, 6, 9, and 13 awful. Rest of the team I actually think went well.



Doubt those key players will to a man be so poor again this year.

Sam T is not fit. Looks to have no pace. Will he be fit next week? But regardless of that the robotic attack we have looks easy to defend against. Score around 20 points v Wigan and there is a good chance you will win.

The entire team played without a brain. Sam is usually the brain. He is not nor will he ever be the pacey fullback he once was.



Sam had a bad day.



Smith had his usual day. Powell and Williams looked clueless. Too much emotion not enough intellect. If we were playing Saints again in the semi I think we would get battered. Wane however has no emotional connection to Hull as such he will probably coach them rather than tell them to knock 7 bells out of them.

Again I hope you are right. Glad you recognise the obvious re Wane and Saints. It was clear as day he had the team in aggressive mode putting in some big tackles but left it at there. Not good enough.

Youve also got the refs assistant in Tomkins. He seems to love telling the ref where hes gone wrong

Win next week all will be well in the world. Lose and it will be in meltdown.

Haha exactly, what winning run eh? It's irrelevant to people like you when we win because you have nothing to moan about.

I'm always entertained when I watch Wigan because, as cheesy as this sounds, I love the club and will support the team win, lose or draw.



Can I see that the Rugby has been one dimensional and lacking in excitement? Of course. But I can also see the insane amount of absentees we've had thoughout the year which inevitably has led to disruption on the field. To be where we are in the table in spite of that is incredible.

It's not so much the disagreement, it's that people like ziggy have barely been on here since the last time we lost.

For some people perhaps a few scrappy wins and they think that we are turning it around then we throw in a performance that was appalling at best and we are back to square one and it brings their frustrations out?

I'm totally convinced that we are absolutely horrific to watch and have been for over 2 years and no amount of scrappy wins will convince me otherwise.

I always hope we win but frankly it doesn't hurt anymore when we don't.

I have already decided not to renew my ST and if and its a big if I won't be going to Wembley if we should scrape a win next week versus Hull.

If that makes me a muppet then i will take Animal as my character.

Anyone reading my previous posts will know I am generally a positive supporter for the team, but the last two performances have left me feeling very flat. I am sick of the injuries excuses - last night we had a decent enough team out but played absolutely godawful rugby, not a clue on the simple basics of how to break down a defence. Too many players just head down and bash (since when did we have two props playing centre???). Manfredi must think the rest of the team have fallen out with him!



I can take a defeat if the team at least looks competitive but last night we never looked like winning, even at the start of the second half when we had lots of possession we never looked like scoring and that has all too often been the case this season.The points for column does not lie, scoring so few points over a season happens for a reason - espeicially when it has been a poor season for others as well



Too many players in this squad are lacking in basic rugby skills, centres who can't/won't pass, forwards who seem to run one line and die with the ball and half-backs who don't know how to draw defenders. We often get to the last tackle and look totally bereft of ideas.



Sadly I think the coaching position at Wigan is looking increasingly like a change is needed - either s decent number 2 (although how much influence they would have is debatable) or a total change as this season (and large parts of last) are not good enough. I believe the players can't be as bad as they are playing..........can they?

On the coaching front why does Bateman play on the right and Isa on the left?

i assume it's for D?

Everything revolves around D and nothing else matters.

I'm still in shock, but recovering slightly after a good breakfast and a stroll by the lake...



First off, injuries. Injuries are in the nature of our collision sport. All teams have them, and, as noted above, with out 1,6,7,13 spine on the pitch, we really can't complain about any other losses. I'm sure Saints and every team can point to a few as well. So that is really no excuse.



I fetched my son up to Wigan from London for the weekend. He's not massive sport or rugby fan (despite my best efforts!

), but even he could clearly see that despite having plenty of the ball and field position, we never really looked like scoring. We pass along the line until it gets to someone (it's usually Gildart) who decides that another pass isn't on or we'll run out of pitch, so he has to stop and try to turn inside. He is tackled and the move peters out with little forward progress. How often did that happen last night? I'm not blaming Gildart, who looks a talented and capable lad (wish he was a bit bigger, though).



A few weeks back I mentioned watching videos of the Cowboys, and someone said, you don't expect us to match the best side in the world? No, I don't, but I watched them produce a complete and utter master-class the other night. Everything they do, forwards and backs, has a purpose.They have a range of plays, and they execute them brilliantly. They re an object lesson how to play the game. Wigan seem to have completely lost their way. If we play like that against Hull we will get slaughtered. I'm going to Donny, but am not optimistic.



BTW, just on the NRL. I also watched the Warriors' narrow golden point defeat. Tommy L, playing at 7, looked pretty good. He had a good game, and came within inches of scoring a neat individual try. He certainly looked twice the player Smith does.

From a saints POV, I don't think I've seen us play a Wigan team so devoid of ideas for a long time. It was really quite remarkable to watch.



We had a right side defence of greenwood, Fleming, Walsh and Owens and you hardly made a dent in it. That's really quite appalling.



Our attacking frailties are just as bad as yours and a lot of the time we didn't look like scoring. Our scores coming from your errors.



Btw, that's the worst I've ever seen Sam Tomkins play. Has he been like that all season? He had an abolsutd stinker.

Agree with all of that.

ST should have been substituted last night as he was horrendous.

He hasn't played well but has been steady if unspectacular. I can only hope that he is only 50% fit and there is much more to come. It would help him if he took those divers boots off and showed a little urgency.

A brilliant player in his pomp and last night was a little embarrassing.

With the players out on the field that was no doubt the worst performance of the season.

Lack of passion? No, probably too much to be honest. All week it was talk our 'our derby' this 'my Derby' that!! What an anti-climax. Tomkins was dire, one of the worst Ive ever seen him play, Sarginson? I'd get him on a plane myself. Smith? Pfft. Our kicking game was a disgrace and lack of attacking ideas in their twenty was just as bad as its been all year.



For once I thought the forwards did their job, getting us into good field position, but time and time again we were let down by the backs.



In my thirty five years watching this club this team is one of the worst attacking teams I've seen.

It would be interesting to know how many tries scored this season have come through ball in hand and how many by kicks to the corners/grubbers.



I'm sure someone said before the game that our average for points scored this season was 14. That's just woeful. Reading this board the sands of time for SW are running out unless things turn around quick, regardless of the injuries suffered. Wigan fans want entertainment as well as results. We're not getting either at the moment.

We need a new identity. This whole "we're more aggressive than you and gonna hit harder than you" is old school, out-dated, boring and isn't working. Too often it either ends in close, dull affairs or the other team just run around us.



We have fast outside backs that never get a chance. We have one of the best catchers of a high ball in the league that never gets a chance to show it in attack because every kick goes to ground. We have one of the most exciting young halves in RL but he has no runners or any sort of options. And we have arguably the best FB in the league who would rather cry about every decision than try and show some attacking flair. They are all being stifled in one way or another to the detriment of our team.

Agreed, I've watched Wigan since the mid 80s, the style of rugby played is just as poor as it was under Noble. No shortage of effort or passion, just a lack of ideas and flair. It's tedious to watch the same move, the players must surely feel embarrassed running the same move with no variation? When you do the same thing, expect the same outcome, we are predictable and easy to defend against. Despite Wane telling us several times over the past few years that they have some new moves and attacking structure, we've yet to see it, if anything we have gotten worse and more repetitive. I've never doubted Wanes love for the club, for the players and the fans. However the past 12 month we seem very limited, if it wasn't for the dire state of Super League, if the usual suspects were on top form we would be nowhere near them, we have to be thankful that SL in general is at an all time low or we would be mid-table.

The style of play is dictated by the coach however, it is the players who do the doing.

Unlike many on here I also think the majority of our players are rank bad rugby players. They may consider themselves as athletes but rugby players? Never in a million years.

I honestly don't know how a full time pro cannot do basics and I mean basics. We have a shed full of wrestlers but very few rugby players.

I could name names but who doesn't know the players who can't pass, kick, consider options, play for 80 minutes, actually really intimidate their direct opponent, make a break........

It's easy to blame the coach (and I do) however, at the end of the day it's the players that really matter and ours just aren't good enough, vastly overrated or past their sell by date. The worst thing for us the majority of our senior players for me fall into these categories.

This isn't a rant over last night it's what I have thought for over 2 years. I think all the injuries have just temporarily deflected that actually we are not a good team.

The access to seeing how other teams play has altered not only Rugby League. Gone are the days when you only saw an opposition player when you played against them.. it's true that when players are unconventional they make a difference, but they also get huge amounts of stick when they mess up... For this in our squad, i give you Gelling, who gets slated on this board, tho less so the last 12 months.

Cunningham obviously coached the defence to defend "the move" and did it well. We could still be playing now and wouldn't score using it. The grubber kick out wide seems to be the new plan B but was executed appallingly apart from the try.



Unfortunately we have nobody with a rugby brain to try something a little different and react in a game situation. Same happened last week when Leeds kept kicking to Hall's wing and Manfredi took every ball. Anyone with half a brain would react to that and target Manfredi with attacking kicks near their line as he had the beating of Hall. Of course, Wigan didn't.



We are incredibly poor at identifying weaknesses in the opposition defence and having a proactive or reactive plan to exploit it with something other than "the move".

Just had a look into the season so far, in my opinion we have put in the following:



4 good solid performances - Saints on Good Friday, Leeds at Newcastle (ok they were dire), Catalans away and Castleford Away.



11 average performances and 8 below average performances, yes injuries have affected us during the season.



** - 5 games where we scored in the final minutes/seconds to win the game (10 points).



We have yet to perform for a whole 80 minutes and blow a team away.





Rd 1 - Catalans (H), Won, 12-6, Average Performance.

Rd 2 – Huddersfield (A), Won, 18-13, Below Average Performance. **

Rd 3 – Salford (H), Won, 20-16, Below Average Performance. **

Rd 4 – Hull FC (A), Won 26-25, Average Performance. **

Rd 5 – Leeds (H), Won 28-6, Average Performance.

Rd 6 – Widnes (H), Lost 12-18, Below Average Performance.

Rd 7 – Saints (A), Won 24-12, Good Performance.

Rd 8 – Hull KR (H), Won 30-16, Average Performance.

Rd 9 – Wire (H), Lost 16-28, Average Performance.

Rd 10 – Wakefield (A), Lost 0-62, Below Average Performance.

Rd 11 – Castleford (H), Won 26-12, Average Performance.

Rd 12 – Huddersfield (H), Won 26-19, Average Performance.

Rd 13 – Warrington (A), Lost 10-40, Below Average Performance.

Rd 14 – Hull FC (H), Lost 16-30, Below Average Performance.

Rd 15 – Leeds (N), Won 40-08, Good Performance.

Rd 16 – Castleford (A), Won 33-26, Good Performance.

Rd 17 – Salford (A), Won 23-20, Average Performance.

Rd 18 – Hull KR (A), Won 20-18, Average Performance. **

Rd 19 – Widnes (A), Won 7-0, Average Performance.

Rd 20 – Catalans (A), 26-6, Good Performance.

Rd 21 – Wakefield (H), Won 22-18. Below Average Performance. **

Rd 22 – Leeds (A), Lost 16-18. Average Performance.

Rd 23 – Saints (H), Lost 4-23. Below Average Performance.





Just my thoughts, some of you may disagree with a few of ratings above and think I'm being too harsh. Whilst it's been pretty average so far this season, to remain in the top four with such a heavy injury list (never known anything like it) is admirable with some real backs to the wall stuff like Widnes away 7-0...etc.



Can we still get to the Grand Final? Of course we can, I actually think we stand a better chance of that than the Challenge Cup (I think we will struggle next week to be honest).



Regardless of how we finish up I do believe SW deserves next season, however we are desperately in need of some sort of additional coaching. We need to try something different instead of 'The move'. I look longingly at Leeds and their new signing James Segeyaro and think if only we had him instead of Matty Smith, we'd be unstoppable.

Sport at the top level is played by keeping a clear head in tough and key moments in a game.

Our guys are brain dead so it's no surprise we win nowt.

The back room staff want to keep their jobs so they pursue fitness beyond everything else and we have zero coaching.

When we were loosing 4-10 we had the chance to take two points to make it 6-10 and ball back but no we ran it and Saints scored to make it 4-16. We had several chances to take two but we never once took them, Saints took theirs, what numb rugby we played yesterday.