Warrington written all over him. Centre is their weak spot.



Wardle and Gildart both left centres so it’s a no.

I’d be surprised if he doesn’t end up with his mate at Warrington as well.



Interesting to read Welsby’s comments about the NRL last night, with him basically saying he’s young and is just focussed on winning things with St Helens. It’s a world away from lads we’ve had in our squad, who make it clear they’ll be off when they get the chance.

If we could keep hold of our players instead of them going to the NRL our potent left edge of



Joe Burgess, Gildart, Williams and Farrell would be into its 9th season together.



That is the continuity needed to put together back to back GFs

It's the one thing I would truly like to find the answer out to. How do they manage to keep hold of their players and we don't?

It's similar to the great Leeds team I.e all about the team, achieving something special and what you can do for it Vs what it can do for you.



I'm not saying we're fully the latter, but we've definitely had an approach of "do well here and who knows where you'll end up". From the outside it seems like Leeds, or Saints say "stay here and let's see if we can do something special."

It’s a question that I’ve asked for a while and one I’ve never had the nuts to ask at a fans forum. The question always asked is ‘why can’t we keep our players?’ but that’s obvious given the salary cap differences. The question should be is ‘how do Saints do it?’ and that’s a mystery and one which will just grow following this World Club win (if players don’t go).



Mike Rush said yesterday that money isn’t everything and it’s success that keeps them but surely that is only applicable with minimal differences between players real values and what they’re currently getting. They have no players on Marquee deals by all accounts but no human being alive is going to under value themselves to that degree. To have no marquee player, you’re talking an average salary of 100k (ish) per player. Now they have 8-10 players under selling themselves by fortunes if that’s the case and plenty of good players turning out for much less than 100k if it’s not.



It’s good for the game that they can keep them and I’m a believer that clubs should be able to spend what they can afford but I’ve struggled for a good while to get my head round it.

'St Helens embroiled in salary cap scandal - titles stripped...'



And then I woke up.

I wouldn't be so sure with Welsby. My understanding is that him and his agent were chatting to Aussie clubs during the WCC trip. I'm not saying it is for next season, it may well be him scoping out options for 2025 onwards. As I've said before I'd be disappointed in him if he didn't go there and chance his arm



What is interesting though is the number of Saints players having testimonials compared to other clubs. Someone posted the stats a few days ago and we have 6 qualifying players still playing and the rest of SL combined have 10



Of late Makinson, Percival, Walmsley, Lomax and LMS have had testimonials. Roby is due another one next season too!!

One day





In fairness it sounds bitter by me all that and I’m genuinely not. I’ve been intrigued by how it’s being managed over there for a few seasons now. If they’re doing it all above board, it’s even more impressive than the trophy wins and the players being paid much much less than they could get elsewhere, deserve bucket loads of credit for putting the club, their mates and success first.



If I look at Lomax, he must be looking at Williams on 300k a year and thinking ‘I’m that good’ or Walmsley must look at NRL props getting £300/400/500k a season and think he’s every bit as good. Welsby in the short term and even more so long term can look at fullbacks probably not as good as him, playing in the NRL and getting absolute fortunes. It’s probably over egged but reports are that Ponga is on £675,000 a year and a guy wanting to be a fullback in Farnworth has signed a deal reported for be about £350-400k a season at the Dolphins. Welsby could demand similar money to Farnworth without doubt if he moved, so I can’t have it he’ll be sitting here on 100-150k a year.

It’s a fair point. I don’t know what the take home figure is from a testimonial but it would need to be bigger than I thought to make a major difference.



That Roby stat is unreal

A second testimonial?! Absolutely outstanding that and a sign of what a legend the guy is.

Exactly.

There could be personal reasons behind it and perhaps they look at when they recruit etc, but I sit there and wonder how no NRL clubs have come sniffing around some of them, and if they have then how the bloody hell have they kept hold of them.



We've lost players to the NRL that haven't even played a first team game or even established themselves yet.

Let’s not kid ourselves, every player is in it for the money and rightly so. Always has been always will be. Unless, Welsby is the one that has broken the mould then he will be looking to get a gig in Australia. The world is his oyster but he will need to grasp his opportunity because who knows what is around the corner.

That is an interesting fact Stu, Wigan have two of the other four with Powell and Faz.

Rush has confirmed categorically that Roby, Lomax and Walmsley have all turned down NRL clubs for whatever reason.

Unfortunately Toby King is still under contract for next season and takes up a huge chunk of cap space. Hoping he has a great season and you want him permanently!

Absolutely there will be personal reasons. Lockers didn't go because of his wife.



Like I say, perhaps saints ask things like that at contract time and we don't. I'd love to know though because it feels like our squad gets torn apart every season almost. Especially in the Wane era when we could and maybe should have done what you and Leeds have done

It certainly seems strange that NRL clubs are prepared to take a punt on players like Albert Kelly and Jordan Turner and Dan Sarginson, but never Lomax or Makinson or Walmsley? So it's hard to imagine that overtures weren't made.

Me too, there is a lack of quality centres around on both sides on the world so their wage demands are high due to the simple laws of supply and demand.



In King and Wardell I believe we could have one of the best centre partnerships to come for a long time, if we can get King permanently.



At 26 and 24 we could have a settled centre partnership for the next 6 or 7 years.



Wardell has already turned down NRL opportunities and I’m told he has no desire to play over there, this may change obviously, but it’s good news for us for now.



Having 2 quality centres of which neither count on the quota is a massive positive for any team.



If for whatever reason we cannot secure King for next year then I’d consider bringing Gildart back, but even then he wouldn’t be my first choice, or probably second/third either.

It’s a funny one with King. I wanted him to really kick on at Warrington, but he seemed to suit being in a Steve Price team and had some serious attitude about adapting to Powell’s ‘one team’ way of working.



I’d take Gildart ahead of King at Warrington simply because he’s more of a strike centre, but I suspect Wigan would move for Gildart and let King go back to Warrington. I just hope Wane has sorted King out by that time. He can be a bit lazy in defence and only has a couple of attacking qualities so far. Strong with a good offload game though.

What’s Wane going to do with King?



Works in an office a couple of days a week I think. Maybe he can teach him how to knock a spreadsheet out.

Because Wane will be the one calling the shots with any attitude issues. His experience in this area will have more effect than some Peet 'coaching', I'm certain of that. I can't see Wane putting up with anything less than 100% effort to address any weaknesses. King became comfortable once he was Price's favoured centre, and after signing a four-year contract he's never hit the same highs since. I imagine Wane would be the one to reset him.

I’m not sure exactly what his role is but I think Peet will be the man to address any concerns in the first instance and looking at him so far, there doesn’t seem to be any. He’s clearly worked hard in pre season and he’s working hard in games.

Welsby would be mad to not at least have a crack at it down in Aus.



He has the full set of medals and awards (except the main MOS) and while he could become a Stains 'legend' the people I work with who are Stains fans, hold him in a strange regard, kind of at 'arms length'.

I don't know if its because he wasn't born in Clockface and played for Thatto Heath (insert other part of St Helens and amateur club as needed), and grew up a Wigan fan in Wigan, in a family of Wigan fans?

Yea Radders and Peet both met with King and outlined at the start of the season what he required from him. Now watching him at Hudersfield and Warrington he was hardly ripping up trees so I imagine he was told straight what is required and we’re he can improve. Wane was known for telling his players but Peet doesn’t fall far from this. If you listen to the OOYL podcast with him on he use to have these chats on the regular