I think us match going fans have been resolute on the whole. The away end at Wigan was superb even though I doubt anyone thought we would win that game. We've gone away in large numbers all season although last night was a bit of a tipping point. Whether it was the fact its a Thursday or that we've played them 3 times in 6 weeks but only 1250 is a poor number. 

The issue with Wellens is that he is a club legend. We did it with Cunningham and are now repeating the same mistake with Wellens. No doubt Lomax or Roby will be given a go at some point. Just stop it.


However despite the fact that he is out of his depth as a Head Coach he has also been given a bad hand. Woolf could see it coming and got out at the top after maximising every last ounce of effort and talent from the players. We now have an ageing team and the recruitment and retention has been a shambles for years


You can see that the likes of Whitby and Robertson have the potential to be great and Dagnall will show his class too but its not enough. I feel sorry for Stephens who has now played a grand total of 19 mins all season. His use of subs is absolutely criminal and yet again Stephens is suffering despite Paasi and Walmsley looking all but finished. 


The only two forwards of note have been Delaney who has carried strong all season and Knowles but even with Knowles he is showing lots of frustration and was even shouting at fans last night at the end of the game to come and have a straightener with him! 

I was definitely on the fence with that one - whether its 3 or 4 players it demonstrates the tough spot the St Helens squad is in. 

Agree with you there, he is on the downward curve although to be fair was superb last night. He has been used as a battering ram for years and is most certainly injury prone. 

Also agree with our set up. We have very few 22-28 aged players, Welsby and Lees being the only ones of note. We either have ageing players past their best- Lomax, Walmsley, Paasi, Clark, Sironen, Percival etc or ones who are very young with potential- Whitby, Robertson, Dagnall, Stephens. 


It's the 22-28 age range we desperately need.

They're where we found ourselves under Lam, with guys like Smithies, Havard, Partington, Shorrocks, Byrne etc being asked to do a seasoned pros job, guys like Clubb and Lockers being pretty much done and a number of players who just weren't up to standard. We compounded the issue trying to sign somebody like George Burgess to sit in that in between age group as well. A few Saints fans liked to revel in telling us none of our players were good enough and just as then, there are players in this Saints side that can take them forward and things can turn quickly but they've some rebuild job on in this next year or two. 

7 straight defeats to Wire, 3 each to us and Rovers, 2 straight to Leigh. Saints this season are mostly winning the games that they should win but not the games that they need to win if they expect to be thereabouts for trophies. I don't like to dump on coaches but I don't see how Wellens stays beyond this season without an absolute miracle. But, as others have said, this isn't a situation a change of coach will easily fix. It needs a squad rebuild as well.

I almost feel guilty questioning his inclusion Stu, as I think he probably would be in that group were it not for his wholehearted playing style. Even last night he was still throwing himself at the defence harder than most of your forwards! He's still a talent when fit but, unfortunately for him and Saints, he's not at his best often enough.