Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"I respect your posts because on many occassion you state something that I hadn't thought of and you give detailed and logical rationale however, on this occassion we will have to disagree. I notice you don't mention one SL coach. For me the game is suffocating due to coaches like SW, KC, Powell et al. The only SL coach who I think lets players play what they see is Smith at Wire. This type of coaching goes in cycles we need a new coach or two to break this ponderous and pontificating approach to what is really a simple ">game.'" Oh you flatter me! I think Bennett was the most obvious example, but I'd argue that Powell and McDermott are both pretty liberal coaches (in addition to Smith who you mentioned). Leeds, Wire and Cas are the highest offloaders this year, and I'd say all 3 play a pretty entertaining brand of rugby - even if it isn't always successful. I think the difference between here and the NRL is that because the defences are much better in the NRL, attacks have to be challenging as many players as possible on as many plays as possible. Andrew Johns was absolutely scathing of St. George Dragon's attack today because they were just working for one or two big plays per set, and this is reflected in them averaging scoring 13 points a game. Saints and Wigan both do the same thing and average 25 and 20 points a game. Teams won't change their bad habits until they stop being rewarded for them. The other issue I have with the structure complaints is that generally (at least in any team I've played for or coached) any structure has an "override" call. Structure is a framework for players to use until they see a reason to deviate. Go and watch the third try from Cowboys vs Bulldogs in the NRL this weekend. I'm reasonably confident that 4th tackle on an opponent's line (having just spread the ball) Cowboys' structure would generally be to get to the middle of the pitch - keeps the wingers up and gives kicking options both sides of the PTB. Thurston sees something last minute so rushes round to the blind side, gets the ball and creates the try. A poorer halfback (i.e. Smith) would have not seen that, just moved the play to the middle of the pitch, and we would bemoan how stifling the structure is rather than looking at the poor quality halves, who haven't had the vision to see any reason to deviate from that structure.

Quote ="Itchy Arsenal"I respect your posts because on many occassion you state something that I hadn't thought of and you give detailed and logical rationale however, on this occassion we will have to disagree. I notice you don't mention one SL coach. For me the game is suffocating due to coaches like SW, KC, Powell et al. The only SL coach who I think lets players play what they see is Smith at Wire. This type of coaching goes in cycles we need a new coach or two to break this ponderous and pontificating approach to what is really a simple ">game.'" Oh you flatter me! I think Bennett was the most obvious example, but I'd argue that Powell and McDermott are both pretty liberal coaches (in addition to Smith who you mentioned). Leeds, Wire and Cas are the highest offloaders this year, and I'd say all 3 play a pretty entertaining brand of rugby - even if it isn't always successful. I think the difference between here and the NRL is that because the defences are much better in the NRL, attacks have to be challenging as many players as possible on as many plays as possible. Andrew Johns was absolutely scathing of St. George Dragon's attack today because they were just working for one or two big plays per set, and this is reflected in them averaging scoring 13 points a game. Saints and Wigan both do the same thing and average 25 and 20 points a game. Teams won't change their bad habits until they stop being rewarded for them. The other issue I have with the structure complaints is that generally (at least in any team I've played for or coached) any structure has an "override" call. Structure is a framework for players to use until they see a reason to deviate. Go and watch the third try from Cowboys vs Bulldogs in the NRL this weekend. I'm reasonably confident that 4th tackle on an opponent's line (having just spread the ball) Cowboys' structure would generally be to get to the middle of the pitch - keeps the wingers up and gives kicking options both sides of the PTB. Thurston sees something last minute so rushes round to the blind side, gets the ball and creates the try. A poorer halfback (i.e. Smith) would have not seen that, just moved the play to the middle of the pitch, and we would bemoan how stifling the structure is rather than looking at the poor quality halves, who haven't had the vision to see any reason to deviate from that structure.

Quote ="Cruncher"We don't even execute our grubber kicks well. The vast majority go straight out of play. It's not known as 'the Hail Mary ball' for nothing ... at best it gives you a 50% chance of scoring. But our halves can't even manage that. Very frustrating to see possession near the line kicked away so often and so ">casually.'" I can't understand why occasionally we don't take a tackle on the 6th especially if it's on the opponents line. To be fair it's the only time our wingers actually have a decent chance of getting the ball so if we did stop kicking to the corner Manfredi and Charnley will get even less opportunities.

Quote ="Cruncher"We don't even execute our grubber kicks well. The vast majority go straight out of play. It's not known as 'the Hail Mary ball' for nothing ... at best it gives you a 50% chance of scoring. But our halves can't even manage that. Very frustrating to see possession near the line kicked away so often and so ">casually.'" I can't understand why occasionally we don't take a tackle on the 6th especially if it's on the opponents line. To be fair it's the only time our wingers actually have a decent chance of getting the ball so if we did stop kicking to the corner Manfredi and Charnley will get even less opportunities.

Surely, what virtually every team does, whether in SL or the NRL, is vary their 5th tackle options: the grubber kick to the corner for the winger, the grubber kick under the sticks (either for a runner to score or force a repeat set), the high kick to the corner, the power play...



Mystifyingly, we don't seem to do that.

Quote ="moto748"Surely, what virtually every team does, whether in SL or the NRL, is vary their 5th tackle options: the grubber kick to the corner for the winger, the grubber kick under the sticks (either for a runner to score or force a repeat set), the high kick to the corner, the power play... Mystifyingly, we don't seem to do ">that.'" We need Gels back, he's the only one that actually tries something different, and plenty of times it comes off.

Quote ="moto748"Surely, what virtually every team does, whether in SL or the NRL, is vary their 5th tackle options: the grubber kick to the corner for the winger, the grubber kick under the sticks (either for a runner to score or force a repeat set), the high kick to the corner, the power play... Mystifyingly, we don't seem to do ">that.'" We need Gels back, he's the only one that actually tries something different, and plenty of times it comes off.

We do indeed, and good on him!

Quote ="moto748"Surely, what virtually every team does, whether in SL or the NRL, is vary their 5th tackle options: the grubber kick to the corner for the winger, the grubber kick under the sticks (either for a runner to score or force a repeat set), the high kick to the corner, the power play... Mystifyingly, we don't seem to do ">that.'" This is a good point. We always put in a ball with the intention of scoring even if there is nothing on. We should be putting kicks in which mean 'at best' we score or get a repeat set and 'at worst' the defending player gets the ball a yard in from his own line. Our kicks from half way to restart the game NEVER trouble anyone!! They go to the same position 5-6 times a game. We're just not exciting to watch, no wonder our average attendances has reduced from 16k to just over 12k.

Quote ="moto748"Surely, what virtually every team does, whether in SL or the NRL, is vary their 5th tackle options: the grubber kick to the corner for the winger, the grubber kick under the sticks (either for a runner to score or force a repeat set), the high kick to the corner, the power play... Mystifyingly, we don't seem to do ">that.'" This is a good point. We always put in a ball with the intention of scoring even if there is nothing on. We should be putting kicks in which mean 'at best' we score or get a repeat set and 'at worst' the defending player gets the ball a yard in from his own line. Our kicks from half way to restart the game NEVER trouble anyone!! They go to the same position 5-6 times a game. We're just not exciting to watch, no wonder our average attendances has reduced from 16k to just over 12k.