For all the talk from union about how national their game is

and how succesful their comp is etc. It's interesting to see that the

bottom three teams in the table are their "expansion" clubs.

Quote ="Deano G"I suspect the end of full time pro-RL will come much sooner than that, unfortunately. We have on this thread the comment yet again that we can't afford to raise the SC. This misses two points, first that the SC is not a means of controlling finances of clubs (or if it is, it is an utter failure) and what we need is a proper system of financial and business planning and monitoring and secondly the inescapable fact (it's just basic maths and economics) that if the cap continues at its current level then inflation will continue to erode player earnings until before long RL won't be able to support a full time pro-game. The fact that clubs can afford to spend more than 30% less in real terms than they could at the outset of the SC means that the game is in a potentially terminal decline. It is a crisis in my view and people need to stop burying their heads in the ">sand.'" Very well said mate

Quote ="Deano G"I suspect the end of full time pro-RL will come much sooner than that, unfortunately. We have on this thread the comment yet again that we can't afford to raise the SC. This misses two points, first that the SC is not a means of controlling finances of clubs (or if it is, it is an utter failure) and what we need is a proper system of financial and business planning and monitoring and secondly the inescapable fact (it's just basic maths and economics) that if the cap continues at its current level then inflation will continue to erode player earnings until before long RL won't be able to support a full time pro-game. The fact that clubs can afford to spend more than 30% less in real terms than they could at the outset of the SC means that the game is in a potentially terminal decline. It is a crisis in my view and people need to stop burying their heads in the ">sand.'" Very well said mate

Quote ="Pieman"They give tickets to all the rugby clubs in the country who want them, they apply and get them, we just sell them through the ">RFL.'" I don't see how that can make the union international game some much better than ours. It's not down to who the rugby union give the tickets to sell.

Quote ="Pieman"They give tickets to all the rugby clubs in the country who want them, they apply and get them, we just sell them through the ">RFL.'" I don't see how that can make the union international game some much better than ours. It's not down to who the rugby union give the tickets to sell.

Because it means more to them. The whole domestic setup of union is geared towards improving the national side.



Added to the fact that a lot of the international games are competitive, in the 6 nations you have 4 teams who regularly win the tournament + Scotland who can beat anyone on their day. There is only Italy as a "weaker" side but they have still improved significantly.



Even when they play the southern hemispheres side, with the exception of NZ the games are very competitive.



We know that we'll get beaten by Aus + NZ, and very very rarely win. But we also know that we can steamroll over France/Wales/Scotland etc.



If you had a regular tournament throughout the season, you'd like to think that the home nations would have players declaring for Scotland/Wales etc and not waiting in hope for an England call up, that would strengthen the other home nations and give us more regular competitive international games throughout the year.

Quote ="loobyfromorrell"All very laudable sentiments, however the inescapable fact of the matter is that the vast majority of clubs (Wigan included) simply cannot afford to spend more money on players' salaries. Many people on here seem to think that if we increase the salary cap level or abolish it entirely, all of a sudden the clubs can afford to match the packages being offered to our players by RU. Totally untrue. RU, through tv deals, money generated to the clubs via the international game, corporate sponsorship etc is simply is in a better position to generate profit. This money inevitably finds its way down to the players and hence they are better able to offer large salaries that we simply cannot match. Many of our players and, I suspect, many more to follow, will take the RU $ and the benefits of playing on a truly world stage. Alternatively, many more will not for a number of reasons none of which will in the foreseeable future include better money in RL. Expansion has to be the way forward for our game. The more people that play our game, the stronger it will be become throughout. Look how many kids are now playing the game in the South East and yet many on here want Quins to be kicked out of SL because their crowds are disappointing. Similarly, in the South of France the game has had a real resurgence since Catalan's formation. More RL players, wherever they are is good for the game. Don't forget, only the very top RU players earn the big bucks. Yeah, we'll lose a few and good luck to them and we'll also lose a few of our very promising young players, particularly the ones whose fathers are employed in RU which is unfortunate. The young players steeped in RL will on the whole stay in our game and if we can expand the game, improve it and increase the size and quality of our player pool, we will begin to compete on the international stage which provides a better pathway for our young players than we have at the ">moment.'" You're missing the point on the SC. If we raised it that should not necessarily mean a club could spend more. If we had proper financial controls then the club would only be able to spend an amount (whether under or over the current cap) which it could afford. Keeping the SC at the same level for a prolonged period discourages growth in revenue. If the people saying there is no way we could raise the cap in the forseeable future are right then the result of this will be the end of full time professional rugby league. We need to put in place structures that encourage financial stability and sustainable growth. Simply arguing for the status quo because of the current failure of the SL clubs to generate a reasonable level of income is not an option, unless you would be happy with a semi-pro French RL standard comp.

Quote ="loobyfromorrell"All very laudable sentiments, however the inescapable fact of the matter is that the vast majority of clubs (Wigan included) simply cannot afford to spend more money on players' salaries. Many people on here seem to think that if we increase the salary cap level or abolish it entirely, all of a sudden the clubs can afford to match the packages being offered to our players by RU. Totally untrue. RU, through tv deals, money generated to the clubs via the international game, corporate sponsorship etc is simply is in a better position to generate profit. This money inevitably finds its way down to the players and hence they are better able to offer large salaries that we simply cannot match. Many of our players and, I suspect, many more to follow, will take the RU $ and the benefits of playing on a truly world stage. Alternatively, many more will not for a number of reasons none of which will in the foreseeable future include better money in RL. Expansion has to be the way forward for our game. The more people that play our game, the stronger it will be become throughout. Look how many kids are now playing the game in the South East and yet many on here want Quins to be kicked out of SL because their crowds are disappointing. Similarly, in the South of France the game has had a real resurgence since Catalan's formation. More RL players, wherever they are is good for the game. Don't forget, only the very top RU players earn the big bucks. Yeah, we'll lose a few and good luck to them and we'll also lose a few of our very promising young players, particularly the ones whose fathers are employed in RU which is unfortunate. The young players steeped in RL will on the whole stay in our game and if we can expand the game, improve it and increase the size and quality of our player pool, we will begin to compete on the international stage which provides a better pathway for our young players than we have at the ">moment.'" You're missing the point on the SC. If we raised it that should not necessarily mean a club could spend more. If we had proper financial controls then the club would only be able to spend an amount (whether under or over the current cap) which it could afford. Keeping the SC at the same level for a prolonged period discourages growth in revenue. If the people saying there is no way we could raise the cap in the forseeable future are right then the result of this will be the end of full time professional rugby league. We need to put in place structures that encourage financial stability and sustainable growth. Simply arguing for the status quo because of the current failure of the SL clubs to generate a reasonable level of income is not an option, unless you would be happy with a semi-pro French RL standard comp.

Quote ="Deano G"You're missing the point on the SC. If we raised it that should not necessarily mean a club could spend more. If we had proper financial controls then the club would only be able to spend an amount (whether under or over the current cap) which it could afford. Keeping the SC at the same level for a prolonged period discourages growth in revenue. If the people saying there is no way we could raise the cap in the forseeable future are right then the result of this will be the end of full time professional rugby league. We need to put in place structures that encourage financial stability and sustainable growth. Simply arguing for the status quo because of the current failure of the SL clubs to generate a reasonable level of income is not an option, unless you would be happy with a semi-pro French RL standard ">comp.'" I think you are missing/choosing to ignore the mechanism of the SC. It is all very well stating putting structures in place, but do you honestly believe that every SL, and RL club for that matter chase down every last penny they can bring in? Why will the SC staying at the current level bring about a semi-professional game? The game was semi-pro before Sky poured their millions in, they will be the dictators of whether the status of SL changes, nobody else. You appear to think having a business plan will dissipate all our woes. Do you think sponsors will blow the phone lines up trying to inject capital on the strength of creating a plan? Do you honestly think any multi-million pound business, which every SL club is, goes about it's business in an ad-hoc manner? Give Sky a product that demands greater returns and then see the SC rise, at the end of the day, they are the paymasters of the game.

Quote ="Deano G"You're missing the point on the SC. If we raised it that should not necessarily mean a club could spend more. If we had proper financial controls then the club would only be able to spend an amount (whether under or over the current cap) which it could afford. Keeping the SC at the same level for a prolonged period discourages growth in revenue. If the people saying there is no way we could raise the cap in the forseeable future are right then the result of this will be the end of full time professional rugby league. We need to put in place structures that encourage financial stability and sustainable growth. Simply arguing for the status quo because of the current failure of the SL clubs to generate a reasonable level of income is not an option, unless you would be happy with a semi-pro French RL standard ">comp.'" I think you are missing/choosing to ignore the mechanism of the SC. It is all very well stating putting structures in place, but do you honestly believe that every SL, and RL club for that matter chase down every last penny they can bring in? Why will the SC staying at the current level bring about a semi-professional game? The game was semi-pro before Sky poured their millions in, they will be the dictators of whether the status of SL changes, nobody else. You appear to think having a business plan will dissipate all our woes. Do you think sponsors will blow the phone lines up trying to inject capital on the strength of creating a plan? Do you honestly think any multi-million pound business, which every SL club is, goes about it's business in an ad-hoc manner? Give Sky a product that demands greater returns and then see the SC rise, at the end of the day, they are the paymasters of the game.