No he didn't, Flannery did...

HTH

2 minutes, at home versus Leeds 2 weeks ago when Ablett scored.

That would be a shoulder in the ribs not the back. Bailey was stood sideways and Graham came in legally.



No, it's called completing a tackle.



Again, not in the back it was in the ribs.

At the time i thought the Bailey hit was terrible, however upon later reflection and watching it on sky it wasn't as bad. I can still understand why people went nuts. It was not as bad as first thought but it was certainly bordering on illegal. A shoulder charge is a good tackle, not when it is a shoulder to the face resulting in him being KO'd and blood everywhere. Also the reaction to it was due to the fact Bailey is a coward.

Of course there would be no such reaction if that happened at the HJ.




OK.



Come on Pembo, we are mates but i'm going to have to put you straight on a few issues.



I thought that the retaliation was always the penalised crime? '"

Dan, that was a waste of five minute of my life, and of watching the girls bring the Cricket World Cup Home.
Give your head a wobble and come back soon. Glad to have you back, though, all the same.

That was the Sky version, man of the match over the sound system was Wellens, "what do Sky know about rugby"

we do and ur not

Your right about the tackle that led to Smith 'hitting out'. The touch judge should have come on with his camp flag raised in the air. It was poor from Gilmour, gouging at eyes, second Saints player pulling hair etc, that's what led to Smiths reaction, so it's wasn't a 'perfectly fair tackle' at all.

I thought the ref needed some help there to be honest, he just sees Smiths reaction, and tough judge misses the tackle out when he's talking to him, so he calls it righ on the information that he's given. If he sees the SKY pictures, Smith will get the penalty, it was more of an attack to the face than the Cunningham one.

Saints were much better than Leeds on Friday anyhow, I though Flannery was excellent. I thought Luke Burgess was very impressive for Leeds. Lots of tough stuff going on, heads getting taken off etc, I thought he just kept carting the ball in all night long, didn't react etc. I thought it was a very composed performance from him, and with good yard gains etc. He's in danger of being better than his brother if he's not careful.

I've watched the game again and from the picture it is impossible to say whether Gilly actually was gouging. The first punch was undoubtedly by Smith.

If,as Gilly said, Smith did bite him then the reaction by Gilly was fully justified.

as you seem to =redDO NOT BYPASS SWEAR FILTERS on them every time they play you, they seem to support which ever team your playing, leave them to it!

No it wasn't, Smith pushed out or call it what you wil, but it wasn't a punch. It was one of those things that you see at hundreds of play of the balls which I find a little annoying, whereby they lash out at the tackler as they aren't happy with something involved within the tackle. Gilmour, for whatever reason decided to wade into him, so in theory he punched first, not Smith.

I still maintain, Gilmour was gouging away at Smiths eye, and I'm not sure who else was involved, but the second tackler was pulling hair etc. If he wasn't gouging, he had his hands all around Smiths eye area, which is dangerous.

I thought it was a strange reaction by Gilmour, so maybe he did bite him. It's not something that i'd associate with him brawling. Smith didn't really retaliate did he.

:2i3dyh4p

It was a punch to the face.

:2i3dyh4p

There is a difference between pushing in the chest after a tackle and pushing (punching) in the face during the tackle.

:2i3dyh4p

As above, for me Smith punched him first.

:2i3dyh4p

It was Wilkin who was also in the tackle. I've watched it numerous times and there is no way that it is possible to say that Gilly is gouging the eyes of Smith. He may be but you cannot see it.



Gilly said he was biten. Smith didn't say he was gouged.

Smith didn't have the chance to retaliate.

Smith must have been judged to have done something wrong as we got the penalty.

I do love a good neutral prospective, great to see that you can look at things from a completely non biased prospective. Fair play to you.

When i was taking to my friend the the other day he asked me how gateshead hull were getting on thats how good hull are relegated then bought there way back into the league real classy

they are obsessed with us. If we dont lose they cant gloat thus find other mechanisms to lash out at the mighty Saints.

talking of being obsessed why are you always on here...dont you have a board of your own to spout your rubbish

i see...

Having watched the match back on Sky, Gilmour's hand did brifely make contact with Smith's face, but his fingers were flat, not gouging. Gilmour did over-react. I don't remember seeing him behave like that before but probably he did more damage to Wilkin than to Smith since Wilkin quickly lay on top of Smith to protect him and you can see on the Sky coverage Gilmour carries on punching but it's Wilkin's kidneys that are getting it (I hope he's not injured as well!).

It was a fast and furious match and there was much dodgy tackling on both sides as well as some fantastic hits. Most players from both teams were actually very composed. Given the ferocity of the battle, we all could have done without Bailey being there and I'm glad his coach eventually saw sense and gave him a little cooling off spell, though it didn't have much effect really given his swinging arm and the obsession he had with ripping off Roby's shirt (much to the delight of the many females in the crowd!). Bailey is one weird bloke.

As for Pryce and him not being world class, I actually disagree. I think he's the one player we have in our team who is capable of performing, and does occasionally peform, at a world class level. Someone on Sky, I think it was Cullen, made the valid point though that in Australia he didn't have Long - that is, he wasn't partnered with the kind of player that tunes in with him (and vice versa). If a team is going to be effective it has to be in tandem. It's no good simply choosing individuals; the coach has to build a real team and Smith did not do that. He fell in with the mindset that since Leeds and Saints were the top dogs in the league then they must have the best players. In fact, that's simply not the case. It's just that [ias teams[/i Leeds and Saints were the best performers last season (who knows what will happen this season). The team is the whole point, not the individual player. Put Pryce in with the right kind of sidekick and he is perfectly capable of hitting any NRL team where it hurts.

Is that the same Long who has consistantly terrorised international defences with his performances at Test level??...

quick question

Who was the halfback partnership in the 06 side that was the fist GB team in over a decade to do the Aussies in their own backyard?

I'm presuming it was your Saints boys??...

.........Once again I direct you towards my original point that I haven't an argument with the fact that Pryce and Long (and several other Saints players) are the best Britain has to offer....my point is that just because they are the best GB has to offer doesn't make them 'World-Class'.

The line '1st team in a decade' gives us a clue to just how good British RL actually is...

I dont think thier world class either. I have simply argued that the gulf in class is not as big as the last tournament suggested. I just think that those players under-performed and are better than that. Yup there is a gap, its fairly big but not that big.



or how good the aussies are.

At the end of the day they have something like 10 times as many players coming through at each level. This breeds more competition and drives higher standards. Their excellent althetes predominantly want to play RL while ours want to play football.

I'd say our top players are very very good and many like Peacock, Morley, Gleeson, Senior (in his prime), Graham, Roby, Cunningham (in his prime), Ellis, Pryce would hold their own in an NRL club side no problem at all.

I agree, but how many would make the Aussie Test side or even State of Origin??...I think to be honest, its just that NRL is just more intense, and takes more commitment and focus from a player to maintain a certain standard.

Over here, in some weeks, some of the better players can get away with performing at 70 or 80%, whilst over there they wouldn't be able to get away with that.

I think the last bit there really is the nail on the head and I think the big problem is that there aint enough good players here to make enough good teams to create that level of competition.

The solution??? Cut out all the chaff like Celtic, Bradford, Wire

and the other bottom feeders and have a 6 team league

I think you are both right. Due to the numbers coming through/waiting in the wings, the players have to be at their very best every week otherwise they are gone. Eventually it becomes second nature.

Our internationals know they don't have to be at their best every week to get picked.

SC, it's good to see you can debate without being a widge.

come on, lets stop this big love in right now