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Quote ="Redchemic"Sensible statement? IMO it's not sensible to have great youth and not give them a go. I don't mean throw them in as a job lot but they should be playing more often. With the games current format it is a perfect opportunity for teams to do so (top of the table not being the be all and end all & no relegation per se). The coach of course is charged with bringing in silverware but he also must introduce the youth more regularly than TS is as I feel that a lot of your lads are more than ready. The other teams mentioned have indeed got a number of imports but they complement the academy lads they produce. I agree fully it's about balance but it should be home produce balanced by supplementary signings for the future health of the game, not silverware first and development later.
Good chat this, I'm enjoying it!'"
Well if we look at the result of what you are suggesting, it would mean leaving out Michael Monaghen and playing Brad Dwyer at hooker. Monaghen is head and shoulders a better player than Dwyer, and I don't think there are many coaches that would make that choice, not the least because you have a highly paid, high class star kicking his heels on the sideline. Similarly with Briers and OBrien, Chris Bridge and Rhys Evans etc etc. Yes, you should play these lads when you have injuries or games that you can afford to lose, but the coach is primarily paid to get results, and similarly the speccies want to see high class (winning ) rugby from their England / Aussie stars. We did play our youngsters against London and Salford (and received a lot of complaints on here), so I think by and large TS has the balance about right.
Your 'silverware first' comment is an interesting one. The heart may agree with you, but not the brain. Professional rugby is a tough financial world, and IMHO the financial aspects of the game must take precedence over everything else. If you are lucky enough to have a Moran as owner, you can afford to buy high quality players, win competitions, and gain a healthy business with money from sponsors, ST holders,prize money etc etc. That money allows you to develop both a strong back room staff and develop your youth system. Without the silverware, sponsorship money would be lower, ST money would be lower, hospitality would be lower etc. So the 'silverware first' approach has resulted in a financially strong club that can afford a good youth system. The challenge now is to keep the club in the top 4 and hence the finances in a strong position, as we transition to a situation where we will hopefully have a good mix of home grown talent and (fewer) imports.
I don't think we are disagreeing about much here, it's just that I don't think you can afford to endanger the clubs success by playing too many of the youngsters. Don't forget you have a different perspective on this. O'Brien would probably be a first choice pick in your team (last year anyway), but he is not at Wire. Similarly, I suspect Rhys Evans would also probably walk into your side. Give it a few years when hopefully you are at least in the top half of the table, you will undoubtedly see a big ability gap between your youngsters and the first team.Then you will find it much harder to make the decisions you are suggesting.
Where is Mick Burke's Boots by the way ? |
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Quote ="Redchemic"Sensible statement? IMO it's not sensible to have great youth and not give them a go. I don't mean throw them in as a job lot but they should be playing more often. With the games current format it is a perfect opportunity for teams to do so (top of the table not being the be all and end all & no relegation per se). The coach of course is charged with bringing in silverware but he also must introduce the youth more regularly than TS is as I feel that a lot of your lads are more than ready. The other teams mentioned have indeed got a number of imports but they complement the academy lads they produce. I agree fully it's about balance but it should be home produce balanced by supplementary signings for the future health of the game, not silverware first and development later.
Good chat this, I'm enjoying it!'"
Well if we look at the result of what you are suggesting, it would mean leaving out Michael Monaghen and playing Brad Dwyer at hooker. Monaghen is head and shoulders a better player than Dwyer, and I don't think there are many coaches that would make that choice, not the least because you have a highly paid, high class star kicking his heels on the sideline. Similarly with Briers and OBrien, Chris Bridge and Rhys Evans etc etc. Yes, you should play these lads when you have injuries or games that you can afford to lose, but the coach is primarily paid to get results, and similarly the speccies want to see high class (winning ) rugby from their England / Aussie stars. We did play our youngsters against London and Salford (and received a lot of complaints on here), so I think by and large TS has the balance about right.
Your 'silverware first' comment is an interesting one. The heart may agree with you, but not the brain. Professional rugby is a tough financial world, and IMHO the financial aspects of the game must take precedence over everything else. If you are lucky enough to have a Moran as owner, you can afford to buy high quality players, win competitions, and gain a healthy business with money from sponsors, ST holders,prize money etc etc. That money allows you to develop both a strong back room staff and develop your youth system. Without the silverware, sponsorship money would be lower, ST money would be lower, hospitality would be lower etc. So the 'silverware first' approach has resulted in a financially strong club that can afford a good youth system. The challenge now is to keep the club in the top 4 and hence the finances in a strong position, as we transition to a situation where we will hopefully have a good mix of home grown talent and (fewer) imports.
I don't think we are disagreeing about much here, it's just that I don't think you can afford to endanger the clubs success by playing too many of the youngsters. Don't forget you have a different perspective on this. O'Brien would probably be a first choice pick in your team (last year anyway), but he is not at Wire. Similarly, I suspect Rhys Evans would also probably walk into your side. Give it a few years when hopefully you are at least in the top half of the table, you will undoubtedly see a big ability gap between your youngsters and the first team.Then you will find it much harder to make the decisions you are suggesting.
Where is Mick Burke's Boots by the way ? | |
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| Quote ="Redchemic"Sensible statement? IMO it's not sensible to have great youth and not give them a go. I don't mean throw them in as a job lot but they should be playing more often. With the games current format it is a perfect opportunity for teams to do so (top of the table not being the be all and end all & no relegation per se). The coach of course is charged with bringing in silverware but he also must introduce the youth more regularly than TS is as I feel that a lot of your lads are more than ready. The other teams mentioned have indeed got a number of imports but they complement the academy lads they produce. I agree fully it's about balance but it should be home produce balanced by supplementary signings for the future health of the game, not silverware first and development later.
Good chat this, I'm enjoying it!'"
Not much disagreement on this thread about the need to bring young players through. It's only your assertion that Wire aren't doing this enough that is in contention. Given our 'academy resurrection' only started about eight years ago I reckon Wire are doing a pretty good job already, with a bright future it seems from the success of the under 20s side. | | |
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i love the way this 'academy lads' is like a badge of honour here. We have plenty of good young players in the team... some came through our youth system.. some came through other clubs youth systems... Some of the players that came through our youth system go on to play for other clubs....Im not sure what the problem is... apart from jealousy.
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Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Well if we look at the result of what you are suggesting, it would mean leaving out Michael Monaghen and playing Brad Dwyer at hooker. Monaghen is head and shoulders a better player than Dwyer, and I don't think there are many coaches that would make that choice, not the least because you have a highly paid, high class star kicking his heels on the sideline. Similarly with Briers and OBrien, Chris Bridge and Rhys Evans etc etc. Yes, you should play these lads when you have injuries or games that you can afford to lose, but the coach is primarily paid to get results, and similarly the speccies want to see high class (winning ) rugby from their England / Aussie stars. We did play our youngsters against London and Salford (and received a lot of complaints on here), so I think by and large TS has the balance about right.
Your 'silverware first' comment is an interesting one. The heart may agree with you, but not the brain. Professional rugby is a tough financial world, and IMHO the financial aspects of the game must take precedence over everything else. If you are lucky enough to have a Moran as owner, you can afford to buy high quality players, win competitions, and gain a healthy business with money from sponsors, ST holders,prize money etc etc. That money allows you to develop both a strong back room staff and develop your youth system. Without the silverware, sponsorship money would be lower, ST money would be lower, hospitality would be lower etc. So the 'silverware first' approach has resulted in a financially strong club that can afford a good youth system. The challenge now is to keep the club in the top 4 and hence the finances in a strong position, as we transition to a situation where we will hopefully have a good mix of home grown talent and (fewer) imports.
I don't think we are disagreeing about much here, it's just that I don't think you can afford to endanger the clubs success by playing too many of the youngsters. Don't forget you have a different perspective on this. O'Brien would probably be a first choice pick in your team (last year anyway), but he is not at Wire. Similarly, I suspect Rhys Evans would also probably walk into your side. Give it a few years when hopefully you are at least in the top half of the table, you will undoubtedly see a big ability gap between your youngsters and the first team.Then you will find it much harder to make the decisions you are suggesting.
Where is Mick Burke's Boots by the way ?'"
Agreement on not much disagreement but it will take a strong coach and understanding chairman to change the status quo.....on the Monaghan quandary why not use Mick Higham and Dwyer as understudy... just a suggestion?
Quote ="Asgardian13"
Not much disagreement on this thread about the need to bring young players through. It's only your assertion that Wire aren't doing this enough that is in contention. Given our 'academy resurrection' only started about eight years ago I reckon Wire are doing a pretty good job already, with a bright future it seems from the success of the under 20s ">side.'"
Agreed
 icon_biggrin.gif" alt="icon_biggrin.gif" title="Very Happy" />
Quote ="morleys_deckchair"i love the way this 'academy lads' is like a badge of honour here. We have plenty of good young players in the team... some came through our youth system.. some came through other clubs youth systems... Some of the players that came through our youth system go on to play for other clubs....Im not sure what the problem is... apart from ">jealousy.'"
Ha ha! I'm a little long in the tooth for jealousy to kick in but hopefully I'll be a long time dead before that happens. Too many good times for the B&W for me to be green eyed
icon_mrgreen.gif" alt="icon_mrgreen.gif" title="Mr. Green" />
icon_wink.gif" alt="icon_wink.gif" title="Wink" /> .
Had a few beers this affer but I've enjoyed this chat. Best of luck folks. See you next season
eusa_clap.gif" alt="eusa_clap.gif" title="CLAP" />
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Quote ="Winslade's Offload"Well if we look at the result of what you are suggesting, it would mean leaving out Michael Monaghen and playing Brad Dwyer at hooker. Monaghen is head and shoulders a better player than Dwyer, and I don't think there are many coaches that would make that choice, not the least because you have a highly paid, high class star kicking his heels on the sideline. Similarly with Briers and OBrien, Chris Bridge and Rhys Evans etc etc. Yes, you should play these lads when you have injuries or games that you can afford to lose, but the coach is primarily paid to get results, and similarly the speccies want to see high class (winning ) rugby from their England / Aussie stars. We did play our youngsters against London and Salford (and received a lot of complaints on here), so I think by and large TS has the balance about right.
Your 'silverware first' comment is an interesting one. The heart may agree with you, but not the brain. Professional rugby is a tough financial world, and IMHO the financial aspects of the game must take precedence over everything else. If you are lucky enough to have a Moran as owner, you can afford to buy high quality players, win competitions, and gain a healthy business with money from sponsors, ST holders,prize money etc etc. That money allows you to develop both a strong back room staff and develop your youth system. Without the silverware, sponsorship money would be lower, ST money would be lower, hospitality would be lower etc. So the 'silverware first' approach has resulted in a financially strong club that can afford a good youth system. The challenge now is to keep the club in the top 4 and hence the finances in a strong position, as we transition to a situation where we will hopefully have a good mix of home grown talent and (fewer) imports.
I don't think we are disagreeing about much here, it's just that I don't think you can afford to endanger the clubs success by playing too many of the youngsters. Don't forget you have a different perspective on this. O'Brien would probably be a first choice pick in your team (last year anyway), but he is not at Wire. Similarly, I suspect Rhys Evans would also probably walk into your side. Give it a few years when hopefully you are at least in the top half of the table, you will undoubtedly see a big ability gap between your youngsters and the first team.Then you will find it much harder to make the decisions you are suggesting.
Where is Mick Burke's Boots by the way ?'"
Agreement on not much disagreement but it will take a strong coach and understanding chairman to change the status quo.....on the Monaghan quandary why not use Mick Higham and Dwyer as understudy... just a suggestion?
Quote ="Asgardian13"
Not much disagreement on this thread about the need to bring young players through. It's only your assertion that Wire aren't doing this enough that is in contention. Given our 'academy resurrection' only started about eight years ago I reckon Wire are doing a pretty good job already, with a bright future it seems from the success of the under 20s ">side.'"
Agreed
icon_biggrin.gif" alt="icon_biggrin.gif" title="Very Happy" />
Quote ="morleys_deckchair"i love the way this 'academy lads' is like a badge of honour here. We have plenty of good young players in the team... some came through our youth system.. some came through other clubs youth systems... Some of the players that came through our youth system go on to play for other clubs....Im not sure what the problem is... apart from ">jealousy.'"
Ha ha! I'm a little long in the tooth for jealousy to kick in but hopefully I'll be a long time dead before that happens. Too many good times for the B&W for me to be green eyed
icon_mrgreen.gif" alt="icon_mrgreen.gif" title="Mr. Green" />
icon_wink.gif" alt="icon_wink.gif" title="Wink" /> .
Had a few beers this affer but I've enjoyed this chat. Best of luck folks. See you next season
eusa_clap.gif" alt="eusa_clap.gif" title="CLAP" />
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Quote ="morleys_deckchair"i love the way this 'academy lads' is like a badge of honour here. We have plenty of good young players in the team... some came through our youth system.. some came through other clubs youth systems... Some of the players that came through our youth system go on to play for other clubs....Im not sure what the problem is... apart from ">jealousy.'"
I'm pretty much like you, all i care about is the 17 i support beat the other 17, they can all come from the moon for i care.
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Quote ="morleys_deckchair"i love the way this 'academy lads' is like a badge of honour here. We have plenty of good young players in the team... some came through our youth system.. some came through other clubs youth systems... Some of the players that came through our youth system go on to play for other clubs....Im not sure what the problem is... apart from ">jealousy.'"
I'm pretty much like you, all i care about is the 17 i support beat the other 17, they can all come from the moon for i care.
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