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Salary cap will be defunct soon anyway
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The SC is all but dead in its current form, and not before time
Koukash has simply put Evalds on his insurance for a year - how is that viewed?
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| Aug 2006 | 19 years | |
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Every offseason I promise myself I won't get into this!
Quote ="SmokeyTA"So Koukash could simply sign Sonny Bill and offer him a million pounds bonus if he wins the best player called Sonny Bull Williams of the year award.
'"
Yep. As has been pointed out, there have been rumblings that clauses like this are the starting point of the fallout between Koukash and other players. As I said, it all depends whether it's contracted, wink winked or totally spontaneous. if it's contracted, the rfl can choose to let it slide on numerous of the rulings mentioned, if its a wink wink it will almost definitely get pulled up due to obligation of reporting, and if it's totally spontaneous the rules aren't covering it. after the wigan "breaking the spirit of the cap" fiasco, the rfl put rules in place to allow them to pick and choose what they do and don't like.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
I think you have misread the rules. There is a prize awarded for mom or for Man of Steel and similar awards that do have a value. For instance previously Tissot would provide a watch for the man of the match. Without the exemption that award would count on the SC even though it wasn't provided by the club to the player.
'"
You of all people must know ambiguity in a contract favours the side signing. In this case, the clubs. No where does it state it can't be club individual awards, or club mom awards. Given how incredibly easy it would be to reword to say RFL individual awards and broadcasters MoM awards, one cannot simply assume that's what it means, now I'm more than happy to accept this may be a misinterpretation, but there's no misreading going on.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
Any payment to a player in relation to his playing of the game by any party related to the game is admissible.
'"
Nope. There are many payments a club can make to a player that are cap exempt. The money paid to Morley and Ali for their appearance in the game vs NZ for example has no bearing on Leeds cap. The cap is a notional value, it in no way relates to how much a player actually get paid.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
This is besides the point anyway as we have already been told that this isn't the case and this is a gift from Koukash to evalds and Koukash's defence is this is nothing to do with Salford Red Devils. Which is how I have always said the cap can be broken. The RFL does not and cannot have the reach it needs to properly defend such a ">cap.'"
Do we have to go here again? It's really very simple. The rfl at any time can request access to a players hmrc information. If they refuse this, they're revoking the agreed terms of their players contract with the rfl, making it void. Meaning the player can't play any more, meaning how much they're being paid by the club completely ignorable in terms of the cap.
Unless the car was given without hmrc's knowledge, the rfl can go and find out whatever they want about it. This is why offshore payment policy loopholes were closed.
since Koukash has "confirmed" it was a gift, the onus will be on Koukash to prove it had nothing to do with his role as director at the club, nor it had anything to do with the player being an employee of the club (nigh on impossible.) If that can't be proven, then the rfl will count it in a cap calculation, to what extent, with what exemptions applying, depending on who owns the car, if it's rented etc.
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Every offseason I promise myself I won't get into this!
Quote ="SmokeyTA"So Koukash could simply sign Sonny Bill and offer him a million pounds bonus if he wins the best player called Sonny Bull Williams of the year award.
'"
Yep. As has been pointed out, there have been rumblings that clauses like this are the starting point of the fallout between Koukash and other players. As I said, it all depends whether it's contracted, wink winked or totally spontaneous. if it's contracted, the rfl can choose to let it slide on numerous of the rulings mentioned, if its a wink wink it will almost definitely get pulled up due to obligation of reporting, and if it's totally spontaneous the rules aren't covering it. after the wigan "breaking the spirit of the cap" fiasco, the rfl put rules in place to allow them to pick and choose what they do and don't like.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
I think you have misread the rules. There is a prize awarded for mom or for Man of Steel and similar awards that do have a value. For instance previously Tissot would provide a watch for the man of the match. Without the exemption that award would count on the SC even though it wasn't provided by the club to the player.
'"
You of all people must know ambiguity in a contract favours the side signing. In this case, the clubs. No where does it state it can't be club individual awards, or club mom awards. Given how incredibly easy it would be to reword to say RFL individual awards and broadcasters MoM awards, one cannot simply assume that's what it means, now I'm more than happy to accept this may be a misinterpretation, but there's no misreading going on.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
Any payment to a player in relation to his playing of the game by any party related to the game is admissible.
'"
Nope. There are many payments a club can make to a player that are cap exempt. The money paid to Morley and Ali for their appearance in the game vs NZ for example has no bearing on Leeds cap. The cap is a notional value, it in no way relates to how much a player actually get paid.
Quote ="SmokeyTA"
This is besides the point anyway as we have already been told that this isn't the case and this is a gift from Koukash to evalds and Koukash's defence is this is nothing to do with Salford Red Devils. Which is how I have always said the cap can be broken. The RFL does not and cannot have the reach it needs to properly defend such a ">cap.'"
Do we have to go here again? It's really very simple. The rfl at any time can request access to a players hmrc information. If they refuse this, they're revoking the agreed terms of their players contract with the rfl, making it void. Meaning the player can't play any more, meaning how much they're being paid by the club completely ignorable in terms of the cap.
Unless the car was given without hmrc's knowledge, the rfl can go and find out whatever they want about it. This is why offshore payment policy loopholes were closed.
since Koukash has "confirmed" it was a gift, the onus will be on Koukash to prove it had nothing to do with his role as director at the club, nor it had anything to do with the player being an employee of the club (nigh on impossible.) If that can't be proven, then the rfl will count it in a cap calculation, to what extent, with what exemptions applying, depending on who owns the car, if it's rented etc.
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 22777 | No
Team
Selected |
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| May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Jun 2020 | Feb 2018 | LINK |
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TO BE FIXED |
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I'm sorry but that is just incorrect. The salary cap covers
5.6.8 unless otherwise excluded in accordance with Clauses 5.7, the Gross value of all other amounts that Accrue to the Player during the Salary Cap Year (whether pursuant to the Playing Contract or otherwise) in consideration for or otherwise on account of the Player’s provision of playing (or related) services to the Club in that Salary Cap Year, including (without limitation), allowances; bonuses (whether discretionary or otherwise); disbursements; expenses; fringe benefits; incentives; insurance premiums; loans; pension contributions; and any other amounts determined by the HSCR to Accrue to the Player in consideration for the playing (or related services) he is providing to the Club in that Salary Cap Year. Where necessary, the HSCR shall determine the deemed Gross value of the relevant provisions for the purposes of calculating the Player’s Salary Cap Value.
What it doesn't cover is third party bonuses/awards made through the club such as
The following items may be excluded in the calculation of the Salary Cap Value of a Player:Â
Prize MoneyÂ
5.7.1 the Gross value of any of the following payments that may Accrue to the Player during the Salary Cap Year:Â
(a) any share of the official prize money paid by the RFL to the Club as a result of the Club’s performance in the Super League competition (provided that full details of such prize money bonuses are submitted to the HSCR at the time that the Player’s playing contract is submitted);Â
(b) any share of the official prize money paid by the RFL to the Club as a result of the Club’s performance in the Challenge Cup competition (provided that full details of such prize money bonuses are submitted to the HSCR at the time that the Player’s playing contract is submitted); and/orÂ
(c) any share of the official prize money paid by the RFL to the Club as a result of the Club’s performance in the World Club Challenge competition (provided that full details of such prize money bonuses are submitted to the HSCR as soon as reasonably practicable and in any event no later than seven days prior to the World Club Challenge competition).Â
Comment to Clause 5.7.1: For example, where a Club contracts to pay a Super League bonus to a Player, such Super League bonus being a share of the prize money paid by the RFL to the Club based upon the Club’s success in the Super League during the relevant Salary Cap Year, the value of such Super League bonus will be excluded from the calculation of the Salary Cap Value for that Player.Â
5.7.2 the Gross value of any bonus payments that may Accrue to the Player during the Salary Cap Year if he wins the annual Man-of-Steel award (or any other similar individual award) or any Man-of-the-Match awards in that Salary Cap Year;Â
Notice that all awards, every single one of them, which the RFL specify not only are have a known value, but are also awarded by a third party.
As for ambiguity, well yes that would be the case if not for the article stating that the RFL/compliance officer is the final arbiter on what counts and it's SC value.
If the SC were the SC as was sold to the public, I.e it does what it was supposed to do and what we were told it would do then there is no doubt whatsoever that under whatever circumstances this is and SC applicable item. If it is the paper tiger I have long argued it is, then the RFL can ignore it. But we can't pretend they are ignoring it because they rules state they will or should, and let's not pretend they are ignoring it because they have missed a loophole and can't punish it, and let's not pretend they aren't punishing it because they have decided this is within the rules and spirit of the cap. If they don't punish it, they are making a conscious decision not to punish something they can punish because it's a fight they don't want. |
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I'm sorry but that is just incorrect. The salary cap covers
5.6.8 unless otherwise excluded in accordance with Clauses 5.7, the Gross value of all other amounts that Accrue to the Player during the Salary Cap Year (whether pursuant to the Playing Contract or otherwise) in consideration for or otherwise on account of the Player’s provision of playing (or related) services to the Club in that Salary Cap Year, including (without limitation), allowances; bonuses (whether discretionary or otherwise); disbursements; expenses; fringe benefits; incentives; insurance premiums; loans; pension contributions; and any other amounts determined by the HSCR to Accrue to the Player in consideration for the playing (or related services) he is providing to the Club in that Salary Cap Year. Where necessary, the HSCR shall determine the deemed Gross value of the relevant provisions for the purposes of calculating the Player’s Salary Cap Value.
What it doesn't cover is third party bonuses/awards made through the club such as
The following items may be excluded in the calculation of the Salary Cap Value of a Player:Â
Prize MoneyÂ
5.7.1 the Gross value of any of the following payments that may Accrue to the Player during the Salary Cap Year:Â
(a) any share of the official prize money paid by the RFL to the Club as a result of the Club’s performance in the Super League competition (provided that full details of such prize money bonuses are submitted to the HSCR at the time that the Player’s playing contract is submitted);Â
(b) any share of the official prize money paid by the RFL to the Club as a result of the Club’s performance in the Challenge Cup competition (provided that full details of such prize money bonuses are submitted to the HSCR at the time that the Player’s playing contract is submitted); and/orÂ
(c) any share of the official prize money paid by the RFL to the Club as a result of the Club’s performance in the World Club Challenge competition (provided that full details of such prize money bonuses are submitted to the HSCR as soon as reasonably practicable and in any event no later than seven days prior to the World Club Challenge competition).Â
Comment to Clause 5.7.1: For example, where a Club contracts to pay a Super League bonus to a Player, such Super League bonus being a share of the prize money paid by the RFL to the Club based upon the Club’s success in the Super League during the relevant Salary Cap Year, the value of such Super League bonus will be excluded from the calculation of the Salary Cap Value for that Player.Â
5.7.2 the Gross value of any bonus payments that may Accrue to the Player during the Salary Cap Year if he wins the annual Man-of-Steel award (or any other similar individual award) or any Man-of-the-Match awards in that Salary Cap Year;Â
Notice that all awards, every single one of them, which the RFL specify not only are have a known value, but are also awarded by a third party.
As for ambiguity, well yes that would be the case if not for the article stating that the RFL/compliance officer is the final arbiter on what counts and it's SC value.
If the SC were the SC as was sold to the public, I.e it does what it was supposed to do and what we were told it would do then there is no doubt whatsoever that under whatever circumstances this is and SC applicable item. If it is the paper tiger I have long argued it is, then the RFL can ignore it. But we can't pretend they are ignoring it because they rules state they will or should, and let's not pretend they are ignoring it because they have missed a loophole and can't punish it, and let's not pretend they aren't punishing it because they have decided this is within the rules and spirit of the cap. If they don't punish it, they are making a conscious decision not to punish something they can punish because it's a fight they don't want. | |
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| Club Coach | 11702 | No
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| Quote ="j.c"On issues like this i much prefer the DRs approach of openness as opposed to the usual smoke & mirrors & knives in the back approach that we usually have to put up with in RL'"
Or how about informing the rfl instead of showing off his flamboyance on social media | | | |
| Rank | Posts | Team |
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| Quote ="number 6"Or how about informing the rfl instead of showing off his flamboyance on social media'"
Informing the rfl about what? | | | |
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