Quote ="FearTheVee" My worry would not be tomkins ability to play there, but his ability to defend in the ">line.'" Having seen Matty Smith's defence for a few years, I would say there's no weakening of the defensive line. That said, with Graham and O'Loughlin do we really need a ball handling fullback? Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Given Matty Smith's kicking is hit and miss and the more natural attacking game of Tomkins, I would move the latter in to the halves and take the former our of the team. Smith has proven himself effective in SL, especially with Wigan protecting him in the defensive line, but his all round game isn't strong enough/consistent enough for international RL. As for moving players out of their club positions, where did jared Hayne play for Australia in the World Cup final and where did he play for the eels?

Quote ="FearTheVee" My worry would not be tomkins ability to play there, but his ability to defend in the ">line.'" Having seen Matty Smith's defence for a few years, I would say there's no weakening of the defensive line. That said, with Graham and O'Loughlin do we really need a ball handling fullback? Too many chiefs and not enough Indians. Given Matty Smith's kicking is hit and miss and the more natural attacking game of Tomkins, I would move the latter in to the halves and take the former our of the team. Smith has proven himself effective in SL, especially with Wigan protecting him in the defensive line, but his all round game isn't strong enough/consistent enough for international RL. As for moving players out of their club positions, where did jared Hayne play for Australia in the World Cup final and where did he play for the eels?

All totally ridiculous. He's in his best position as determined by numerous coaches. Leave him be. England played OK in that tournament IMO - nowhere did it feel like we were outclassed, we could easily have won all three.



Finally, it's stupid to make sweeping judgements of someone based on one game (or three for that matter). A few weeks ago we were hearing that Tomkins was an appalling defensive liability at full-back. You could have said exactly the same about Hall (on the wing) in the last game (if you're inclined to ridiculous over-reaction that is).

Can Hardaker play centre instead of Watkins? Watkins was poop.

Quote ="Tre Cool"Can Hardaker play centre instead of Watkins? Watkins was ">poop.'" He can, but there are a few better options there. This is not a thread about getting Hardaker in the team at all costs anyway as you and others seem to assume, its about maximising England's potential with the talent they have available.Continuing with Tomkins at FB and having an average half back with no threat in Smith and having 2 players of the quality of Hardaker and Lomax when fit in the stand seems criminal to me.Like i said, i can't see things changing unless the Warriors decide to switch Sam to HB anyway but if they do i think would be to our benefit.

Quote ="Tre Cool"Can Hardaker play centre instead of Watkins? Watkins was ">poop.'" He can, but there are a few better options there. This is not a thread about getting Hardaker in the team at all costs anyway as you and others seem to assume, its about maximising England's potential with the talent they have available.Continuing with Tomkins at FB and having an average half back with no threat in Smith and having 2 players of the quality of Hardaker and Lomax when fit in the stand seems criminal to me.Like i said, i can't see things changing unless the Warriors decide to switch Sam to HB anyway but if they do i think would be to our benefit.

Does Tomkins have any type of kicking game if he plays at no6?. If you look at Australia when all are fit they have Smith,Thurston & Cronk. NZ have Johnson, Foran (& Leaului when he's on).



If we lose a kicking option at half back to accomodate Tomkins wouldn't England be easier to close down on the last tackle, bombs, touch finding etc?



Shame the best kicking half back in England is running around in a Scotland shirt.