I am very much country 1st, club 2nd because I can see the wider benefits to the game if we had a viable international competition + successful England team in terms of general PR etc than if my club side wins a comp.



I however am in the minority I'm afraid and as most fans become fans of our sport because they follow a team and dont become fans of the game by watching internationals.



I think therefore the majority of fans would prefer to see their club who they have followed for a number of years win a competition and see the International game as an add on, which potentially has a detrimental impact on their club i.e. if players are injured or worn out.



The only way I see a change in peoples attitudes is to provide a credible international calendar. At the moment though England sit in a position where certainly Australia and probably NZ are too strong, which means we have no chance of winning an international tournament and on the flip side England are way to strong for other nations such as France and Wales etc.



The public arnt stupid and when we play in the 4 nations we rely on the hardcore League faithful to attend where the majority either arnt overly bothered or think we havnt got much chance in winning. The erosion of RL in the mainstream media also means that almost no-one in the general sporting public are aware of RL Internationals or arent bothered by them and therefore wont attend.



The answer therefore is we desperately need countries like Wales and France to set up to become credible RL playing nations and be able to compete with England and perhaps eventually NZ and Australia.



The RFL have desperatley been trying to encourage this to happen with the huge investment made in Wales RL + providing opportunities for the French to raise their standards i.e. allowing and incentivising French domestic teams to enter the Northern Rail + Challenge Cup + Tolouse into Champioship 1. From what I've read they also try to invest and assist whereever possible in the development of RL in other European nations.



Unfortunatley I dont think the NRL have the same attitude. Their focus has been very much focussed on Australian RL only and distractions like the Super League War, the threat of RU, AFL + Soccer and now the independent commission has only made matters worse.



Further expansion of the NRL is on the horizon with Perth + a 2nd team in Brisbane being the most favoured options, which only complements my comments above. The NRL in my opinion could have done alot more to assist in the development of the game in countries such as New Zealand, PNG, Fiji, Tonga, Samoa + the Cook Islands.



IMO another good place to start would be to sort of player eliability once and for all. Players such as Ukaile Uate and Petero Civonceiva should be playing regularly for Fiji not Australia which only weakens their team and makes the international competition less credible. The only way to sort this IMO is that a player at the age of 16 should have to choose which country they wish to represent / are from and once they have chosen they should not be allowed to change.



Not simple answers unfortunatley - we need Wales RL to continue to grow and hence why the Crusaders demise was such a body blow. Lets only hope they will compete in a lower division. We need the French RL to get its act together. the success of the Les Catalans is vital but we need other clubs to start performing to their potential.



We need to raise the standards in England with an increased player pool. This will happen by clubs focussing on youth development rather than overseas players + we need 14 competitive clubs. We need clubs like Salford to start punching above their weight and make inroads into the greater Manchester sporting market + London to finally start being a credible force in SL on the back of home grown talent.



A 2nd NRL franchise in NZ + PNG would massively assist their credability + any other major development in countries such as the USA or Jamaica would only be a good thing.

Quote ="Wellsy13"Are you country first? And if not, why not and what would it take for you to be? If you are, why don't you think others are? I think it's about time the RFL looked at the many reasons why people choose not to support their country in the numbers they should and look to address them instead of just accepting that the international game just isn't that ">big.'" I think the problem here is that you're asking this question to hardened fans. We're pretty much all going to be club before country; we pour lots of time and money into following our clubs and are pretty much spent when it comes to internationals. I think what the RFL need to realise is the modern trend towards how to sell international sports; concentrating all your resources on hardened club supporters isn't going to work, you need to look for the part-timers. The hardened supporters will have spent a lot of money and large portion of the year going to home matches, popping over the pennines, going to cardiff, going to London, going to Perpignan etc etc. It all adds up. Part time supporters might have a keen interest in the sport, but they might not be able to afford the time or money to follow a team. When a big event comes around that is marketed properly, particularly an international, they'll head to that. For example, a fella from Fev who has moved to Kent and has a young family. If the tickets are a tenner, will he take his family to a) Fev vs Skolars, b) Quins vs Salford or c) Wembley Double Header. Similarly, you live in London, you're new to the game, got a mate who bangs on about RL, you've seen a couple of matches on Sky, which were good and you just want a good, different night out. Which of those three options would you chose? You look at RU, Football and Cricket. The international matches are targetted at part timers. They develop a comprehensive media and sponsorship portfolio and make the image of matches as prestigious as possible. We can argue all we want about what we think about Eng/GB etc, but it doesn't really matter in a way because the international games needs marketing beyond us.

Quote ="Wellsy13"Are you country first? And if not, why not and what would it take for you to be? If you are, why don't you think others are? I think it's about time the RFL looked at the many reasons why people choose not to support their country in the numbers they should and look to address them instead of just accepting that the international game just isn't that ">big.'" I think the problem here is that you're asking this question to hardened fans. We're pretty much all going to be club before country; we pour lots of time and money into following our clubs and are pretty much spent when it comes to internationals. I think what the RFL need to realise is the modern trend towards how to sell international sports; concentrating all your resources on hardened club supporters isn't going to work, you need to look for the part-timers. The hardened supporters will have spent a lot of money and large portion of the year going to home matches, popping over the pennines, going to cardiff, going to London, going to Perpignan etc etc. It all adds up. Part time supporters might have a keen interest in the sport, but they might not be able to afford the time or money to follow a team. When a big event comes around that is marketed properly, particularly an international, they'll head to that. For example, a fella from Fev who has moved to Kent and has a young family. If the tickets are a tenner, will he take his family to a) Fev vs Skolars, b) Quins vs Salford or c) Wembley Double Header. Similarly, you live in London, you're new to the game, got a mate who bangs on about RL, you've seen a couple of matches on Sky, which were good and you just want a good, different night out. Which of those three options would you chose? You look at RU, Football and Cricket. The international matches are targetted at part timers. They develop a comprehensive media and sponsorship portfolio and make the image of matches as prestigious as possible. We can argue all we want about what we think about Eng/GB etc, but it doesn't really matter in a way because the international games needs marketing beyond us.

Quote ="Wembley71"You have the same misinterpretation I did. There's no minimum number on the ticket deal, and no obligation to take extended deals with travel and/or ">accommodation.'" Last season there was , it was a 50 seat package

Quote ="Wembley71"You have the same misinterpretation I did. There's no minimum number on the ticket deal, and no obligation to take extended deals with travel and/or ">accommodation.'" Last season there was , it was a 50 seat package

So it looks like the RFL looked at that and addressed the matter.

The lack of competitiveness can't be underestimated when it comes to small crowds for internationals in England. There are a lot of bandwagon supporters of GB/England - if we really look likely to beat Australia when it counts, people would turn up. But if we get smashed when the big crowd turns up, a lot of people wouldn't bother going again. Unfortunately the near future promises more of the same. I can't see England getting close to Australia any time soon.



People should also remember that international RL in Australia is way behind Origin and the NRL. There's more interest in NZ as they are now regularly competitive, and even the Aussie fans are starting to take interest when they play (and an added side-benefit is we're starting to see more young Kiwis who are eligible to pick either Australia or NZ opting for NZ). But there really is no interest at all in seeing England as far as I can tell.

Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"The lack of competitiveness can't be underestimated when it comes to small crowds for internationals in England. There are a lot of bandwagon supporters of GB/England - if we really look likely to beat Australia when it counts, people would turn up. But if we get smashed when the big crowd turns up, a lot of people wouldn't bother going again. Unfortunately the near future promises more of the same. I can't see England getting close to Australia any time soon. People should also remember that international RL in Australia is way behind Origin and the NRL. There's more interest in NZ as they are now regularly competitive, and even the Aussie fans are starting to take interest when they play (and an added side-benefit is we're starting to see more young Kiwis who are eligible to pick either Australia or NZ opting for NZ). But there really is no interest at all in seeing England as far as I can ">tell.'" You make a very good point about the bandwagon. People often use the argument that a club's hardcore support can be measured by the size of the crowd against one of the lesser teams with few travelling fans. If you look at England, our hardcore support is about 12k (what we usually get against France and Wales in competitive fixtures). Should we look to build this up first, and the rest will follow maybe?

Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"The lack of competitiveness can't be underestimated when it comes to small crowds for internationals in England. There are a lot of bandwagon supporters of GB/England - if we really look likely to beat Australia when it counts, people would turn up. But if we get smashed when the big crowd turns up, a lot of people wouldn't bother going again. Unfortunately the near future promises more of the same. I can't see England getting close to Australia any time soon. People should also remember that international RL in Australia is way behind Origin and the NRL. There's more interest in NZ as they are now regularly competitive, and even the Aussie fans are starting to take interest when they play (and an added side-benefit is we're starting to see more young Kiwis who are eligible to pick either Australia or NZ opting for NZ). But there really is no interest at all in seeing England as far as I can ">tell.'" You make a very good point about the bandwagon. People often use the argument that a club's hardcore support can be measured by the size of the crowd against one of the lesser teams with few travelling fans. If you look at England, our hardcore support is about 12k (what we usually get against France and Wales in competitive fixtures). Should we look to build this up first, and the rest will follow maybe?