But the thing is though, When we signed players like Amos Roberts and George Carmont, Players like Darrell Goulding and Josh Charnley were nowhere near ready for regular first team action, they were signed as a stop gap so to speak while the club worked hard in developing these young lads. Its payed off massively so far with the likes of Goulding and Sam Tomkins and hopefully it will for Josh Charnley and the rest too.

I have absolutely no idea why we have signed Ryan Hoffman - Ian Lenegan mentioned something about the shortness of his deal being something to do with how Gareth Hock turns out, but still I cant understand why we have signed him when we have Joel, Farrell, Hansen, Tuson and Mossop who can all obvioulsy do a job. But one things for sure now at Wigan if he isnt performing as well as Joel etc Maguire wont play him.

After 5 pages we finally get to the reason why the thread was started.

Wrong!

I am proud that the Giants have a low number of overseas players and that they are quality players not journeymen on 'exemptions'.

I think the number at HKR is poor and if they have 10 or so overseas players when they have been in SL 12 years I think it will be appalling.

For a club that has been in SL 12 years and in a RL heartland it is very disappointing that much of your starting line up will include the likes of Obst / Henderson / Leanno and a broken Motu Tony. How long do JK and Ted need to put it right?

For whats its worth, Leaeno won't be here next season, but you'll find my thoughts on the number of overseas players at Trinity on that forum. I even put a comparison team which had just 4 overseas players in the 17 against one that included all of them, and IMO the team compromising of mostly Brits wouldn't have done much worse than the one filled up on imports (see Ben Jeffries thread).

We're all going to go round in circles here about the legitimacy of Overseas players and who is good enough and who isn't, how many youngsters each club has got etc...

I'm assuming the thread has been started to look at the number of Overseas players in the league and the effect that has had on the national teams success. If that is the case then it would seem most appropiate to look at the national teams problem positions and then compare where the Overseas players play.

If we look at the backs in general as a problem and then take the starting line ups for the top four sides this year in those positions then surely we find where we are going wrong.

Wigan

1. Tomkins
2. Roberts (Overseas)
3. Gleeson (Coming to the end of his career)
4. Carmont (Overseas)
5. Richards (Overseas)
6. Finch (Overseas)
7. Deacon (Coming to the end of his career)

St Helens

1. Wellens (Coming to the end of his career)
2. Gardner? (Coming to the end of his career bearing in mind he's a winger)
3. Gidley (Overseas)
4. Soliola (Overseas, and I've picked him there because of his shirt number)
5. Meli (Overseas)
6. Pryce (Coming to the end of his career at 29)
7. Eastmond

Warrington

1. Hodgson (Overseas)
2. Riley
3. King (Overseas)
4. Bridge
5. Hicks (Overseas)
6. Briers (Coming to the end of his career)
7. Myler/Monaghan (Overseas)

Leeds

1. Webb (Overseas)
2. Smith
3. Delaney (Overseas)
4. Senior (Coming to the end of his career)
5. Hall
6. McGuire
7. Burrow

So I'm sure you'll argue with my selections and alot of you will know better about who will be starting for your club come February but it doesn't look pretty does it.

9/28 Are possible International players of age still. I've been harsh with the 'coming to the end of their career' because that's the bottom line. They are either past it/tried internationally and they haven't been good enough. I could add McGuire and Burrow to the tried and not good enough pile by I've decided to let them off.

Wigan, Saints and Leeds to an extent have youngsters coming through who will hopefully push into starting spots in the next couple of years but at the end of the day if you are good enough you are old enough.

Just look at the NRL, look at the age of which youngsters are blooded and look how they've performed. We've got to improve levels of coaching and training, rather than rely on our youngsters learning from seasoned overseas players who in reality weren't good enough to stay in the NRL and were pushed out by a better youngster.

Sorry I've realised that I've missed Shenton out. Fair to Saints, but the point still stands.