so for sticking up for a player, i must be his girlfriend......ok then.



I think i'm just one of those people who tries to look for the positives in players, don't get me wrong, im all for opinion and thats is why im giving mine right now, thats what being a saints "supporter" means.

You're a beacon of shining light in a world of idiots.

He seemed to stack up last year? www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

He seemed to stack up last year? www.superleague.co.uk/statistics ... eason=2009

I never said he was rubbish once. I don't happen to think he is anywhere near the player some supporters seem to think. In terms of replacing him,I wouldn't because British RL has such a dearth of quality that the only alternative is a foreigner which helps nobody.



Offensively he offers barely anything. Maybe the odd decent kick and the odd pass but these are nothing like consistent aspects to his game. He doesn't make millions of yards and to be perfectly honest, I am not going to get chuffed over some decent angled dummy runs, these are areas of the game where they could shove anybody there and tell them to run in a certain way.



Defensively he obviously makes more tackles than it appears however how many of these are third man in tackles ? How often does he make an impact and win the collision in defence ? I would suggest it isn't very often.



These are all opinions and everyone is entitled to theirs. Wilkin for me needs to buck up big time.

Sometimes I despair, I really do. So Wilkin is the latest player to come in for a slating.

With such a bunch of under-achieving, no-mark players how the fsck have we managed to be so successful over the last 13 years.

God help the lads when the 'glory days' end.

i'm a bit torn on the Wilkin issue.



I think he suffers massively from when he broke into the team and people expecting him to be the next Sculthorpe - which in 2006 he looked like he was shaping up to be. However, he isnt Sculthorpe - he lacks the class in his ball handling amongst other things. However, he works hard, and like others in the team he does a lot of work that goes unnoticed by the average viewer.



He also suffers because he is probably the biggest personality in the team, with all his media work - so people expect him to be the best player in the team and play at the top level every week.



I thought last year, he wasnt great - and I was massively disappointed with his non-performance in the Grand Final, and his petulant outburst afterwards didnt exactly put him in the best light. If he can get back to 2006 form, he will be is a massively valuable player this year, in a year when we will need experienced players to dig in and go the extra mile.

Thats the point that i was making!!

Well said.

If people who say they are supporters dont take notice of all of the things that go up to make a RL team work then perhaps they should just be called watchers.



Without players who do the type of things that Wilkin does then the rest of the team do not function at the level they are capable of.



Dummy runs produce holes that other players can run through, the better the dummy runner - the better angles he runs - the easier it is for the ball carrier to get through the gap.



This is the difference between being an average team and a very good team, however the dummy runnner very rarely gets noticed - just the break.



Basically Wilkin does all of the tasks that a team needs but doesnt get noticed by the average supporter, plus he has the ability to create, kick and break the line - all in all the type of player you want in your team

Best post on the thread.

Have I missed 10 defeats whilst I was away on holiday or just one?

St pete is Francis Meli and I claim my £5.

If you think running consistently good lines both with and without the ball is that simple and that unimportant then you're well wide of the mark.







Wilkin hits hard. He is a presence in defence. It sounds to me like you're clutching at straws here, largely because of some undisclosed personal grievance. 39 tackles per game over four games is an outstanding feat (furthermore, the number of tackles he's made indicates the extent to which the side has been under pressure - a situation in which he is being accused of hiding) and should be recognised as such.

I agree with earlier posts on the thread, he's suffering as he was compared to Scully early on and he hasn't developed into that.



It was always going to be a choice for him IMO, he had the potential to be a decent stand off or a decent pack man, Saints have turned him into a pack man and concentrated their efforts accordingly. However he suffers from a similar problem to Sinfield IMO, he's not really big enough to be a great loose forward, nor is he fast or skilful enough to be a great stand off.



He's turned into a solid pro playing for us, and with these new rules in regard to slow ptbs hopefully his skillset will come to the fore to help us break down ever increasingly better defences.



His form [ihas[/i dipped over the last year or so, but then name me a player who that's never happened to?

Mal Meninga

No no no no no...you mean Steve peters...his bar skills are still top notch too...



Jon Wilkin has never been the same since he got his nose flatted at twickers....

Pretty much agree with that. Wilkin is a talented player, but he's one of my frustrations at Saints (along with Maurie). He's living off a great year in 2006 and whilst he's done OK in patches since, he's been inconsistent.



I'd like him to kick on a bit now and offer more with the ball.



You can't question his effort and commitment to the cause though. An average of 39 tackles per game is phenomenal.

Running good angles can be trained relatively quickly into any player. For a professional rugby league player, it should be second nature and not seen as an exceptional characteristic of their play.









I'm not convinced by your assertions that Wilkin 'hits hard'. Based on what evidence? Through my own eyes I have seen him make many tackles and I dont recall seeing him make a huge hit, definitely not consistently.



I do not have a personal grievance with the guy at all. This incident happened years ago and didn't involve myself. I do however know that for the want of a better word, the bloke is an a-hole. However, that doesn't dispute the fact that he can play the game to a good level. I just think he should be performing better.



I do not dispute his tackling count so far this season, those are good stats. Lies, damned lies and statistics as they say. He needs to do more IMO to warrant playing for Saints.

At no point in my posts did I say wilkin was rubbish. I think he has everything to be a top class player but IMO he is getting worse by the year.



Since 2006 he has not kicked on. I thought he would be the ideal replacement for scully but I don't think he is anywhere good enough.



I do agree he should be played at 13 and see how it goes.

I agree with what has been said.



Personally Wilkin frustrates/annoys me alot of the time. He has the skill to be a top, top quality player and dominate a game. At present though he, to me, does the unselfish work like Gilmour often did/does. He tackles like a machine, he might not hit hard but he completes the tackles. His line and running are great also. He's very often there with a key pass and he is on the shoulder or supporting on virtually all breaks.



I'd like to see him go on and start to dominate games more. I think it is abit of too many chiefs and not enough indians at the minute. What with Cunningham, Long, Pryce and Robes when he is on i think he has to take a step back. I think in the future he will step up and start to dominate.

Wilkin is a good solid player who can cover a number of positions well. If we are at the point of slating him we must be truely lucky to be watching this side. He would walk into almost every other team.

I do however expect him to leave us when he has done 10+ yrs and captain Hull KR who he happily admits he has supported since he was a nipper

I thought about this comparason yesterday which leads me to ask the question: 'If you took away Sinfields goal kicking, which of the two would you want in your team?' One who isn't afraid to pick up the ball and run it or one who is rarely seen taking a tackle in his own 20?

I remember a game against Hudds at home. Every time Skandelis (the Giants' main forward) got the ball, Wilkin immediaty hammered him. Becuase of that, the Giants failed to get any sort of momentum from the off and we dominated the game.

I'd take the Leeds man any day of the week.

Agree with a number of things that have been said. Wilkin can become a lot better player and seems to be in a slump at the moment. I do not think anyone here is slating the guy we just think he has not yet reached his potential and we are all hoping that he is motivated enough to do so.



Maggenis, Ashurst and Dixon should provide some motivation for him.