In the U16s he is huge compared to his peer group go back and review some video footage.

So you are saying the real great parts of his game are te parts the Rhinos are not going to make much use of i.e. passing and Game reading - that seems very strange for a professional club?

Walker's class is his balanced running style and his basic speed not unlike Kalum that is not something you can coach - funny how Walker has played as many first team games as the outstanding player of his peer group? Real class is not a moment in time its permanent,

He isn't in the U16's, he is in the 19's, and he wasn't the biggest when in the U16's. He was big but not the biggest, and he did play the pivot at that time.

I also said, they were the best parts of his game at Junior level, I didn't say now. Infact I was quite clear he is on a programme at the Rhinos, changing parts of his game.

Walker is a class player. And one I hope will be at the top for years, but he unlike Smith needs to add the physicality yet, which is the part that effects other areas. As is the same with other class players still to come through.

You are totally correct in your last sentence, so why on earth are you making these postings writing off young players?

Smith wasn't the pivot for the Leeds U16s did he ever play in the halves in the U16s? Walker played more games in the halves than Smith.

Because so many are over hyped and that view of them as youngsters sticks with them , If he doesn't turn into the superstar some predicted they will have a lot of egg on your face so they will defend the indefensible until it cannot be legitimately defended anymore. Morgan Smith was another potential superstars - that will not happen - Cameron Smith could well be the same = sometimes we have to admit the best juniors don't turn into the best Seniors. Walker oozes class even Ray Charles can see that - different animal.

I don't know why you keep mentioning Jack, I know very well how good he is, I was talking about him long before you had heard of him, and of course he played more games in halfs that was his position, but everything revolved around Smith. He isn't the only one with class ready to step up too. Where you are wrong is what you are saying on Smith, including his size and junior days. The reason the lad is not in the first team is due to injuries, preventing him putting in a performance in the 19's, to give reason to pick him. But as you said class is permanent, and he will come good when settled. Morgan Smith also was already a Super League regular, but again has been injured and therefore out.

The point about Walker is nobody was talking about him being the next greatest thing as they were about Smith - virtually nobody was suggesting he should be a first team player before the start of this season - what it shows is that some juniors simply don't develop into top players where others don't.

On the size thing and the pivot thing we must agree to differ - he was the stand out player I would agree that is what is so frustrating that the Leeds system struggles to develop players.

So where is he going play in the first team - ahead of JJB, Ward, Ferres, Ablett, Keinhorst, Delanney, Walters you think he will get picked before these?

Morgan Smith was a bit player at Warrington in and out of the side never a starter when they had a full side to pick from a bit like Daniel Smith at Huddersfield

What I am saying David is that there is more to a players progression and being picked than whether they still have the class or not. Injuries are a massive factor for any player, and not only effect you physically but other areas too, and it is this bit where in some cases progression fails, not because they were over hyped. Although expectation does play a part in those other areas.

I don't think any of those players you mention are the same style of Smith. Of course though style will come from the coaches development here on in though, so yes it is open to guess. But all I have said is wait to see if recover from injuries before writing it off, because that is your reason.

Leeds also have another truely exceptional player in their under 19's. A player constantly injured, who keeps coming back, luckily. Whether his luck changes will determine his career, but that doesn't make his quality any less. Leeds know it, and have continued to back him, hoping his luck changes, because the quality is worth it.

I wouldn't suggest letting Smith go until we've actually seen what he's capable of.

In terms of the others I'd be looking at letting as many of our bog average forwards go as we can. As someone else said I'd make an exception in playing terms for JJB who does seem to be integral to the team ethos.

I can't see how we can try to scrape by another year with both Burrow and McGuire around, unless McGuire was willing to accept becoming a bit part player and Burrow is happy off the bench. Whilst Burrow keeps his speed he's worth keeping for that alone.

Also just to add to this Sal, you mention nobody had spoken of Jack Walker before this season as first team. Again that is wrong, he has been spoken of many times by those that have an interest in the academy players. The only reason for not pushing it was because Jack was given a target weight before first team, and he wasn't at that weight yet.

Indeed back in the under 16's with that team, I was asked on this forum whom I thought would make it as super league players, and I named 9 players. 3 of which were from the under 15's, so too young to make a mark yet. But of the six of the 16's, whom Jack was one, 3 have already made their debuts, one I am confident will do over the next few weeks, and one being the lad with a run of injuries I was talking about above. Those injuries and how it responds are important to a players development, and any of those three that have made debuts could easily have had the same bad luck.

Heard a whisper Holroyd Johnson Moorhouse Martin Broadbent & Spence have got deals.

Been offered deals, not yet able to sign, I don't think.

Spence is typical of someone getting a deal based on contacts.

Gotcha I've noticed before you don't rate Harvey Spence and your more than entitled to your opinions, but he has represented England, and also been a regular part of a very good unbeaten u16s side, to claim his possible deal with the Rhinos is an inside job seems harsh. Remember these are young lads who are trying to get their foot in the door at the same time as the pressure of Gcses or whatever they are called now.

Who said I didn't rate him? And I never said anything about an inside job. I however don't think he is as good as a lot of players and has got where he as through people he knows, which others don't get that chance. That doesn't mean I don't rate him, just I think there is better.

It's just that you don't think he'll become a first team player so for me it's the same thing. As I say your opinion is as valid as anyone's and maybe inside job was the wrong phrase. I just think all these lads should be positively encouraged not accused of cronyism.

There is a lot of players who get opportunities that others don't due to who they know. That is not reserved for Spence, whom happens to be much better than others who get by with contacts. However, I still don't think he would have got as far without it. Good luck to him though, if he kicks on from it.

I remember him at under 12/13 and although my memory is not great, I think he might have been a fullback then. He was very good in that age group. But when I look at people with contacts, I also look a the scrum half whom I have also mentioned previously, Scrimshaw. He was in the best junior team in the game, but he wasn't that good really. Leeds chose him over a super half who was at East Leeds and ended up going to Bradford instead, and that was done because of contacts and bait to catch something else.

Who is the half who went to Bradford mate ?

The kid has earned it he's come on in spades since playing regurlarly at this level & his England selection shows that imo.

I can't remember his full name, so might be guessing a bit, but I believe he has just been offered a contract for their under 19's. Think it is Luke Littlewood, or something very similar to that. Was at East Leeds, and was miles better than Scrimshaw.

i player open age at Lock lane and we had a cracking under 18 side, there were some superb players in that side 4-5 looked destined to be excellent pro players and 1-2 of them did have some pro club time, but a skinny slightly spotty kid who had had guts and a good engine ended but who was not one of the star players ended up being picked up by wakey and ended up being a super star, Gareth Ellis.

you cant judge who is good at 13-15-17, they aren't always the ones who make it.

I think you are missing the point that was made above mate. And if you had been posting on here long enough, you certainly wouldn't need to preach to me about Gareth Ellis going to Wakefield, and he was more than a skinny spotty kid.

Gotcha re Spence he's always played so. The lad at fb for stanningley was lucas pearson who was possibly the quickest kid I've ever seen.

Good point, and you are right that is probably the kid I was thinking of back at under 12's/13's. He was a very quick kid, looked untouchable then. You are obviously linked with Stanningley, what happened to him?

He suffered a bad knee injury but I think he was named in the u16s squad last wknd.

I believe Billy Jowitt has too. Leeds have offered contracts earlier this year, to try and get tied up before other clubs can approach.

Luke has signed for our U19s. Very very happy as he has looked the real deal from what I've seen in his performances for the Scholarship. Don't be too disheartened as in 12 months we will have our regular off field melt down and our young stars that John Bastian & co have developed and nurtured will be snapped up. Hope we finally have the off-field stability for our academy (which IMO has always been top draw despite all off-field rubbish)

McGuire - Comfirmed as leaving
Burrow - Believed to be retiring
JJB - Wants another year
Sutcliffe - hopefully stays
Handley - Would let go
Lilley - Signed new deal
Baldwinson - hopefully stays
Hallas - believed to have signed for Bradford permanent
Walters - would let go
Smith - hopefully stays.