I'd agree to a point, in that many SL clubs youth development is poor, however I'd suggest the problem starts below that at grassroots level. Players simply aren't arriving at academy age with good enough basic skills. There are still too many coaches and teams where the pass it to the big kid strategy is prevalent.

I think we need to move to a system where kids play in smaller teams on smaller pitches with less space available for the big kid to run straight through and it might develop better passing and handling. Plus I'd like to see a change in the points system for youngsters. At primary school in York the mini league comp we played in gave 3 points for a try or 5 points if the ball was passed more than 3 times. It at least tried to encourage and reward passing the ball.

I think the SL clubs could do a lot more with a better coached influx of players to their academy.

...or play a lot more touch football at junior level, removing the edge the big lads have altogether?



Anyway, DHM is right. Its laughable that the best halfback SL has produced over the past 20 years was a player who 9 times out of 10 folded completely against the Aussies, because he simply didn't have the sort of disciplined game required at that level despite having all the skills. Also laughable that a centre like Yeaman, who is one of the worst passers of the ball I've seen in that position, is somehow England standard. Or that our own Hardaker can continue to be picked at centre for over half a season inside one of Sl's top wingers, and yet have no more idea how to get him the ball after half a season than after one game.



From what I've seen of our U20s they seem to be pretty well drilled TBH, but I think that the sport as a whole is playing long-term catch-up to make up for years of absolute neglect of junior development.



The other issue I'd add is psychological. Hammerings do occur in the NRL, but they're far rarer than SL. Compare and contrast Leeds' reaction against Wigan and Wire - in one game we never ever looked like trying to claw back, in the other we at least tried to stem the flow. Then last night I watched two NRL games which exemplify the difference between SL and NRL attitudes. Canterbury were 18-0 up against St george after about 20 minutes, scored tries just before and after halftime, and yet only won 28-20. Why? Because St george, whilst well-beaten, simply didn't throw the towel in at any stage, despite probably the worst first 30 minutes I've seen from an NRL side this year. NRL sides are EXPECTED to do that, and it happens more often than not. Then the Bronocs got beaten 12-0 by the Cowboys, with the first try not coming until about 65 minutes in, on the back of huge defence by both sides throughout.



The issue is, even the likes of Widnes, Broncos - and ourselves recently - very rarely show any kind of bottle as a team when we start to lose. Heads drop, body language sucks, and fans and players alike seem to take this as acceptable. It shouldn't be.

Yep you're right Brisbane I think a touch rugby comp should be a mandatory part of the amateur season. It doesn't half sharpen your passing & handling when you know you can't just barge over the line.

It also helps keep it enjoyable for some of the smaller, less physical or less confident players.

I was thinking on my way home from work yesterday pretty much what you said. When I was playing juniors we played on full size pitches which for most of the season were mud baths. This resulted in the tactics being 'give it to big Graham and let him run'. So the big guys were hailed as stars and the smaller guys with the skill were left watching. These big guys get signed but are no longer the big guys and can't back it up. Compare it to the nrl where forwards are happier handling the ball and it emphasises the difference. I'm all for amateur moving to summer and junior rugby playing on smaller pitches. The physical element still needs to be there but with more emphasis on skill. Just because the pitches are smaller, it doesn't mean the ball will be thrown around. You see it at the half time matches where the big kid still tries to run it through. There needs to be more structure in the coaching with the need to win played down and the development of skills prioritised. Less emphasis on playing particular positions and more on developing all skills

I was always baffled by that as well, especially when you think we had a pack consisting of Fielden, Farrell, Sculthorpe, Morley, Peacock and Cunningham or Newton - all in their prime. Then I read extracts from his book and it all became obvious. He could get away with being p!$$ed all week at SL level.



I coach U9 (now U10's) in Union and funnily enough the RFU is so worried about the fact thay players coming through at the moment are too focused on taking contact that they are changeing the entire game at minis level to encourage ball skills rather than contact. The tagline now is that rugby is an "evasion" sport not a contact sport. I don't know what League is like at that level but the game that we now are looking to adopt in Union from 6-12 is very different from the adult game.

it doesnt look good when McBanana picks Chase in the England side !

We need to get into the schools and get the youngsters playing touch and pass from 5 year old up to 7 or 8 years.It will do the world of good as has been said the big strapping kid cant use his size to just bulldoze through.Not only will it get the smaller kids into the game but will develope the ball handling skill of the big lad and also bring on what to me is lacking in our game the habit of the player with the ball having options on who to pass to as the others will be backing up the man with the ball.Look at the last game against the ozzies they were offloading and it was as though the man with the ball demanded someone to be there and knew there would be.We need to do a lot more within the schools at an early age thats for sure.

True, which is why we should do it centrally.

In kids Hurrling in Ireland kids are not allowed to "lift" the ball in the first half, but can in the second half and get points for tehnique. They could do something similar in RL whereby the play tag rugby in the first half and then allow tackling in the second halfThat way there is emphais both on the skill factor and also on tackling /hitups.

They are making moves in this direction. Certainly in the midlands, each county has a community RL coach whose job it is to go into schools and get them playing RL. It starts off with touch and pass and progresses to contact at secondary school. Unfortunately it hasn't resulted in loads more kids coming down to local clubs, as lots depends on the parents willingness to take them etc, but a certain number come through and it at least teaches them that there are at least 2 types of rugby and one is much better to play

Its a long term investment though, and hopefully the RFL will see it as such, and continue with it

We currently do both.

I know we do, but that is only to a level.



Im talking about completely taking away everything from SL clubs, They run a first team and that is it, where the RFL, paid for by the SL clubs, centrally take control of everything from coaching the coaches at the very young age groups, up to the coaching, nutrition, strength/conditioning etc of the elite higher age groups. With SL clubs only getting involved at the stage of taking players professional and into their first teams.

A couple of points Smokey: How many players will this programme take compared to the current pro academies, and how will you split them.



Secondly, whilst centralising may get better coaching to identified players, it misses one key point: Attracting the better players in the first place. From my own experience of RFL RPDC/scholarship programmes, and pro academies, the prospect of being in a pro club academy is far more appealing to a young player than an RFL programme.

I would look for something along the lines of the RFL to take on about 300 in each age group at so at any one time we would about 1200 affiliated at any one time. Which is a similar if a little smaller amount to the current academy numbers but spread over a slightly larger age group with about 300 ‘graduating’ each year.



The pathway I would look have would be amateur coaching (improved of course) between 5/6 and 14, with a much much bigger focus on touch/tag. The best 300 14 year olds taken into the RFL elite coaching scheme, split between 15 ‘super clubs’ throughout the country, here they would get maybe 3 additional training sessions a month, and about 8 matches a year, and access to elite facilities whilst still with their amateur club.



At 15 and 16, a similar thing happens, with more access from the elite coaches and a couple more matches. At 17 their ‘super club’ becomes their club in the same way they would currently, but again through these centrally funded clubs, they all play each other in a 15 team league. In the year they turn 18 they can join a Championship or C1 club, and still be eligible for their ‘super club’. The next year they will join an SL club or turn pro/semi-pro at a championship/c1 club, with a limit of 30 players being employed by any club at any one time.



The advantages I see in doing something like this is it means more kids get more access to better coaching, it stops the kind of thinking we saw at Hull FC where they picked 4/5 youngsters they saw as having SL potential and the rest were simply ‘filler’, it would mean kids could be coached to fulfil their potential not necessarily to do a job for a specific club side, it would mean we could employ people like JP or even someone like Andrew Johns to go be specific coaches spending one session a fortnight with each club doing specific skills coaching whilst paying them one wage, and I think it puts the focus on making the best rugby players these kids can be, rather than the best rugby players the clubs need.



As for how we distribute them? There are different options, we could have it that at the start of the year the kids turn 19 they can be signed by any club, anywhere, or we could look at some kind of draft system or anything in between really.

Having witnessed the entertaining game of touch and pass that passed for rugby tonight Hanley is bob on.

a shocking advert for northern hemisphere rugby league tonight lol



Can't remember one big hit all night

To be fair, the Wests-Roosters game on Sunday was awful for exactly the same reason - laughable defence from both teams.

I can recall one from Amor on Leuluai - but like most "big hits" made with the shoulder it failed to control the ball carrier who was able to bounce to his feet and get a quick play the ball. Give me a controlling, effective tackle that slows the play the ball down over players running around trying to be SBW any day of the week.

They should of course do that but a big hit is also nice to see once or twice a game. I'm going to miss Thomas Leuluai while he recovers from his injury.



Fereti Tuilagi was another former favourite.