|
 |
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Mintball="Mintball"But they can walk away and get a better job at any time, if only they had the brains, the balls, the initiative, the determination etc.
Because it is all entirely their own fault if they work in such a situation and, in this employers' market, we must never condemn the businesses using the situation to drive down pay and terms and conditions.
And anyone who says otherwise is an unpatriotic communist who doesn't live in the real world.'"
l really should refrain - this employer is behaving not differently than it ever has - to suggest they are driving down T&Cs is simply a phallacy.
Are you suggesting that these employees have no options - Aldi force them to work there?
How would you suggest this works in your real world?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 14845 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"l really should refrain - this employer is behaving not differently than it ever has - to suggest they are driving down T&Cs is simply a phallacy.
'"
Knob! 
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"l really should refrain - this employer is behaving not differently than it ever has - to suggest they are driving down T&Cs is simply a phallacy.
Are you suggesting that these employees have no options - Aldi force them to work there?
How would you suggest this works in your real world?'"
It's Thatcherite socialism dearie: with phalluses and expense accounts for cleaners.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 26578 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"l really should refrain - this employer is behaving not differently than it ever has - to suggest they are driving down T&Cs is simply a phallacy.
Are you suggesting that these employees have no options - Aldi force them to work there?
How would you suggest this works in your real world?'"
Like it or lump it is not an option it is an ultimatum.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 3605 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Jul 2012 | 13 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
May 2016 | May 2016 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| My contracted shifts are 12 days from 14, (2 of them being standby), 52 weeks a year, only four days per annum on shutdown, probably down to 3 days for next year as Boxing Day disappears from the calendar - I had 10 days booked off over christmas and new year - just been handed 7 of them back to be added to my 2014 allowance as we worked or were on standby through the period.
Its a good job that I enjoy the work, the pay is good and my expenses for Dec are going to be outrageous 
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Mintball="Mintball"It's Thatcherite socialism dearie: with phalluses and expense accounts for cleaners.'"
Again show me where I said cleaners had expense accounts - you can't. I am still waiting for you to give evidence of where I said nobody can have an increase because I haven't had one!!
You can't because these quotes don't exist it is you making stuff up!!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Big Graeme="Big Graeme"Like it or lump it is not an option it is an ultimatum.'"
No its not - nobody is dragged screaming to Aldi to work. What is the ultimatum here, it is not a prison where they have to do as they are told.
All these people have options - this is a free country the way you talk Aldi is salt mine in Siberia, get a grip on the true reality here.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 37704 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"Again show me where I said cleaners had expense accounts - you can't. I am still waiting for you to give evidence of where I said nobody can have an increase because I haven't had one!!
You can't because these quotes don't exist it is you making stuff up!!'"
Mintball is incorrect, it was care workers who you thought had expense accounts.
And while you may not have said others should not have a pay rise, you have never been slow in condemning any other workers (especially but not exclusively those in the public sector) who may have taken industrial action in order to preserve and/or improve their working conditions and/or pay.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"Again show me where I said cleaners had expense accounts - you can't. I am still waiting for you to give evidence of where I said nobody can have an increase because I haven't had one!!
You can't because these quotes don't exist it is you making stuff up!!'"
I never said tat you said that cleaners had expense accounts: you claimed that homecare workers had expense accounts.
You also 'think' that Blair led a 'socialist government'.
That tells intelligent people everything they need to know.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Mintball="Mintball"I never said tat you said that cleaners had expense accounts: you claimed that homecare workers had expense accounts.
You also 'think' that Blair led a 'socialist government'.
That tells intelligent people everything they need to know.'"
No I didn't so again prove where I said home care workers have expense accounts? What I said was home care workers would claim out of pocket expenses back - that is not the same as an expense account - shame you struggle to understand the differences.
You said Blair followed Thatcher/Major's policies - he didn't. He did what all Socialist governments do i.e. increase the size and cost of the state and increase taxation and benefits. That tells the rest of us what we need to know - pity your limited intelligence struggles to cope with such simple and basic concepts.
Now run along and show me where I said nobody should get a pay rise because I haven't had one - you seem to struggle to show us all this?
What is really a shame is you haven't got enough about you to accept you got it wrong and admit it - you are a very sad individual indeed.
A keyboard despot - sad, very sad. You need to get out more - seriously!!
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"You said Blair followed Thatcher/Major's policies - he didn't. '"
Oh, he did. Spectacularly. In recent years the only main political party to sort of stay in the same place is the Tories, the other 2 have shifted to the right and are now occupying the same ground as the "nasty" party.
You just need to read the manifestos, it's all in there, benefit cuts (neatly called welfare reform or some other such slogan that passed a focus group), NHS privatisation, no mention of any form of renationalisation. A vote for Labour/Lib Dem is a vote for Thatcher and everything she stood for, no matter how much people try and pretend it isn't.
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 26578 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Mar 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Jul 2017 | Apr 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| If you don't quit with ad hominem attacks people will be taking a rest, understand?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote cod'ead="cod'ead"Mintball is incorrect, it was care workers who you thought had expense accounts.
And while you may not have said others should not have a pay rise, you have never been slow in condemning any other workers (especially but not exclusively those in the public sector) who may have taken industrial action in order to preserve and/or improve their working conditions and/or pay.'"
At last somebody who can read. If some member of the chattering classes on here can show me where I said home care workers had expense accounts I will readily admit my mistake.
I don't agree with striking because it is counter-productive as we saw in Grangemouth and we saw with the miner dispute of 84/85. How is it that most non union labour seem to be able to sort out their issues without the need for industrial action yet union dominated trades industries seem to see striking as a viable tool to get what they think they are entitled to.
Maybe I am wrong but it appears to me the union is driving the strike rather than the members - the union guys will be OK they will not lose money during a strike unlike their members, its bonkers. The idea that automatic pay increases should be given out without the need for any performance improvement is a concept set in the dark ages. My wife used to work at Morrisons they give out annual pay rises based on the profitability of the company as a whole i.e. performance related pay that is individually done for each employee all 140k of them. Having a union would not get the employees anymore pay in fact it would actually hinder and most likely cost them.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Big Graeme="Big Graeme"If you don't quit with ad hominem attacks people will be taking a rest, understand?'"
I trust that means everyone?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Oh, he did. Spectacularly. In recent years the only main political party to sort of stay in the same place is the Tories, the other 2 have shifted to the right and are now occupying the same ground as the "nasty" party.
You just need to read the manifestos, it's all in there, benefit cuts (neatly called welfare reform or some other such slogan that passed a focus group), NHS privatisation, no mention of any form of renationalisation. A vote for Labour/Lib Dem is a vote for Thatcher and everything she stood for, no matter how much people try and pretend it isn't.'"
So how does huge spending on public services follow what Thatcher was doing which was the opposite i.e. reducing the size of the state?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"So how does huge spending on public services follow what Thatcher was doing which was the opposite i.e. reducing the size of the state?'"
It was financed privately. Wander round Darwen or Blackburn and see how many NHS buildings are labelled with "Capita". What did Labour donor, Mr Aldridge have to do to get his company name linked to the NHS? Build an "academy".
That's the Labour legacy, let me profit from the NHS and I'll build you a school.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"It was financed privately. Wander round Darwen or Blackburn and see how many NHS buildings are labelled with "Capita". What did Labour donor, Mr Aldridge have to do to get his company name linked to the NHS? Build an "academy".
That's the Labour legacy, let me profit from the NHS and I'll build you a school.'"
Are you really saying the massive amount of extra money spent on health and education by Blair/Brown's Labour was all really a myth it didn't actually happen?
The institute for fiscal studies suggest they did - spending on health and education went from 10.1% of national income to 14.8% by 2010.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"Are you really saying the massive amount of extra money spent on health and education by Blair/Brown's Labour was all really a myth it didn't actually happen?'"
No, I'm saying look where it came from, how it was financed. What was it spent on. It's quite interesting, that for all this extra money the spent on health, the life expectancy gap between the richest and poorest grew for the first time in decades.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"No, I'm saying look where it came from, how it was financed. What was it spent on. It's quite interesting, that for all this extra money the spent on health, the life expectancy gap between the richest and poorest grew for the first time in decades.'"
It was financed from taxation and/or government borrowing - that much is proven.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"It was financed from taxation and/or government borrowing - that much is proven.'"
Well, yes, but every single thing the government buys is financed from taxation and/or borrowing.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 18072 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2025 | Feb 2025 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Well, yes, but every single thing the government buys is financed from taxation and/or borrowing.'"
You are saying it was all private investment not government money? So how do you explain the move from 10% to nearly 15% if it is not increased government spending on health and education?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote Sal Paradise="Sal Paradise"You are saying it was all private investment not government money? So how do you explain the move from 10% to nearly 15% if it is not increased government spending on health and education?'"
No, I'm not. I'm asking what's the proportion of spending through taxation or private investment. If in the past a new hospital was paid 100%/95%/90% or whatever through taxation is it the same now?
If a government spends an extra 5% on health and education, which isn't going to be chicken feed, just where did the money come from?
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
| Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"... That's the Labour legacy, let me profit from the NHS and I'll build you a school.'"
PFI was created by Major's government.
And it was Thatcher's government that started privatising the NHS, bit by bit – selling off 'soft services', for instance, so that in order for private companies to profit from cleaning hospitals, they had to axe half the cleaners to start with. It is, of course, pure coincidence that, shortly after this, rates of c-diff and MRSA started climbing.
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Star | 210 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
Dec 2013 | 11 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Feb 2016 | Sep 2015 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote Mintball="Mintball"PFI was created by Major's government.
And it was Thatcher's government that started privatising the NHS, bit by bit – selling off 'soft services', for instance, so that in order for private companies to profit from cleaning hospitals, they had to axe half the cleaners to start with. It is, of course, pure coincidence that, shortly after this, rates of c-diff and MRSA started climbing.'"
Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not.
Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.
|
|
Quote Mintball="Mintball"PFI was created by Major's government.
And it was Thatcher's government that started privatising the NHS, bit by bit – selling off 'soft services', for instance, so that in order for private companies to profit from cleaning hospitals, they had to axe half the cleaners to start with. It is, of course, pure coincidence that, shortly after this, rates of c-diff and MRSA started climbing.'"
Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not.
Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.
|
|
|
|
|
Rank | Posts | Team |
International Chairman | 47951 | No Team Selected |
Joined | Service | Reputation |
May 2002 | 23 years | |
Online | Last Post | Last Page |
Aug 2017 | Jul 2017 | LINK |
Milestone Posts |
|
Milestone Years |
|
Location |
|
Signature |
TO BE FIXED |
|
|
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not...'"
It's what New Labour does/did. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there was a reason that one of the first things Blair did, on becoming leader, was to get rid of Clause 4 from the party's constitution – the clause that tied the party, at least ideologically, to public/state ownership.
In office, Blair's government continued down the same ideological, economic route set in motion by Margaret Thatcher: continued privatisation, continued deregulation etc.
The only substantial difference – the 'third way' – was actually spending something on public services, although not to the record levels that became a myth that the party left unchallenged for political reasons at the time. But by 1997, hospitals and schools etc were in crisis in terms of infrastructure after nearly two decades of cuts, privatisation etc. Hence the newspaper headlines about old people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.'"
Since the rise of hospital infections, there have been vast numbers of attempts to get infection rates down (handwashes everywhere has been a recurring favourite) – and blame levied all over the shop (too many visitors etc).
Back in 2009, UNISON sponsored a study in a Scottish hospital where it was found that just one extra cleaner on a ward cut infection rates. The experiment lasted for six months on one ward and was then repeated on another ward for the same amount of time.
The problem, if you will, is that staff cost money: handwashes, on the other hand, make profits for someone. If infections kill patients, then any cost (compensation) is likely to be socialised (as was also being agreed when there were efforts to privatise and offshore medical secretaries – a move that had serious consequences for patient outcomes when tried in the US some years ago, and huge financial costs in terms of compensation etc). There are reasons that the obvious and – you would think – easiest options are often the ones least likely to be put into practice.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8337947.stmStory[/url.
Additionally, though not mentioned in that story, UNISON has also repeatedly called for a return to proper sisters on wards, and for them to be given control over cleaning staff. The situation that remains in place at present is that medical staff cannot call a cleaner to do something, because they are not the cleaner's line manager – someone at the private company is – so it's more complicated than it should be to have cleaning services respond to need determined by medical staff.
|
|
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Indeed it was, but that's what Tories do. It most certainly isn't what the Labour party do, or did.
Who knows if it's a coincidence or not...'"
It's what New Labour does/did. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there was a reason that one of the first things Blair did, on becoming leader, was to get rid of Clause 4 from the party's constitution – the clause that tied the party, at least ideologically, to public/state ownership.
In office, Blair's government continued down the same ideological, economic route set in motion by Margaret Thatcher: continued privatisation, continued deregulation etc.
The only substantial difference – the 'third way' – was actually spending something on public services, although not to the record levels that became a myth that the party left unchallenged for political reasons at the time. But by 1997, hospitals and schools etc were in crisis in terms of infrastructure after nearly two decades of cuts, privatisation etc. Hence the newspaper headlines about old people dying on trolleys in hospital corridors.
Quote BobbyD="BobbyD"Then you've this from 2012.
www.nhs.uk/news/2012/05may/Pages ... rates.aspx
I've no idea how these figures stack up prior to the selling off by that woman, I suppose the reduction in cases as the level of private investment increases is purely a coincidence. Surely a good thing though.'"
Since the rise of hospital infections, there have been vast numbers of attempts to get infection rates down (handwashes everywhere has been a recurring favourite) – and blame levied all over the shop (too many visitors etc).
Back in 2009, UNISON sponsored a study in a Scottish hospital where it was found that just one extra cleaner on a ward cut infection rates. The experiment lasted for six months on one ward and was then repeated on another ward for the same amount of time.
The problem, if you will, is that staff cost money: handwashes, on the other hand, make profits for someone. If infections kill patients, then any cost (compensation) is likely to be socialised (as was also being agreed when there were efforts to privatise and offshore medical secretaries – a move that had serious consequences for patient outcomes when tried in the US some years ago, and huge financial costs in terms of compensation etc). There are reasons that the obvious and – you would think – easiest options are often the ones least likely to be put into practice.
[url=http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8337947.stmStory[/url.
Additionally, though not mentioned in that story, UNISON has also repeatedly called for a return to proper sisters on wards, and for them to be given control over cleaning staff. The situation that remains in place at present is that medical staff cannot call a cleaner to do something, because they are not the cleaner's line manager – someone at the private company is – so it's more complicated than it should be to have cleaning services respond to need determined by medical staff.
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|