Quantify 'ordinary'.

Firstly, that's not what you said, you said "everyone" and secondly, as far as New York is concerned I presume that you were basing your misguided opinion on Manhattan, rather than the five boroughs that make up New York City? Quite a lot of people live in Manhattan anyway admittedly in expensive real estate, but, in the Bronx, Brooklyn, Queens and Staten Island there are plenty of neighbourhoods where "ordinary" people live.



The City of London is a different animal altogether, but, then I do wonder what you think qualifies as London in your model?

Let's go for, anyone on "average" wages, wanting to live within 15/20 mins of "The City", especially if they want to buy a property.

Places that would cost £200,000 in the north of England, comfortably selling at over £1,000,000.



Of course, people who have lived down there and not "cashed in" their property can afford to live in "Central London" but, unless you are on mega bucks, you aren't going to be able to buy there.

Of course, there are some exceptions.

A substantial amount of people from Hoboken and jersey city commute the short distance across the Hudson to manhattan . Unfortunately some of the working class areas in these communities have been gentrified . Property prices have shot up, pricing the average wage earners out of the market. As in London if you bought years ago you are quids in or should I say dollars in.

As in London some of the journey times people undertake to commute to New York from outlying areas are staggering.

So, the first murmurings today of the EU wanting to regulate clearing of their own transactions, 70% of which take place in the City and which generate huge revenue for our financial sector.



Also, listening to the Conservative MP, Bill Cash, on 5 live today, it seems like much of the groundwork for the Brexit negotiations is already laid out and remaining in the single market or access to it are not going to be possible, regardless of the make up of the new coalition government.



Where are all the Brexitiers who said that there would be no problem getting a free trade deal.

No worries. Putin is now looking after the USA and UK.

What a FOOKING mess we are in. Our lead negotiator is as Thick as mince and as lazy as a toad. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45911.html And we are currently being manipulated by a group of individuals who are more interested in their power games to be next Tory leader than representing the national interest. Gove Hammond. Davis et al.

What a FOOKING mess we are in. Our lead negotiator is as Thick as mince and as lazy as a toad. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45911.html And we are currently being manipulated by a group of individuals who are more interested in their power games to be next Tory leader than representing the national interest. Gove Hammond. Davis et al.

Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"What a FOOKING mess we are in. Our lead negotiator is as Thick as mince and as lazy as a toad. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45911.html And we are currently being manipulated by a group of individuals who are more interested in their power games to be next Tory leader than representing the national interest. Gove Hammond. Davis et al.'" You're citing an Indy article and expecting it to be taken seriously? Especially one quoting a man called a 'career psychopath' by David Cameron ffs, and known for stabbing Johnson in the back, for being Gove's wing man, and for being incredibly bitter about the Brexit process which has left him in the cold? FFS, the Tories could find a cure for cancer and the Indy would immediately condemn them for not doing it quickly enough and for not having enough working class black Muslim lesbians from tower blocks on their team.

Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"What a FOOKING mess we are in. Our lead negotiator is as Thick as mince and as lazy as a toad. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 45911.html And we are currently being manipulated by a group of individuals who are more interested in their power games to be next Tory leader than representing the national interest. Gove Hammond. Davis et al.'" You're citing an Indy article and expecting it to be taken seriously? Especially one quoting a man called a 'career psychopath' by David Cameron ffs, and known for stabbing Johnson in the back, for being Gove's wing man, and for being incredibly bitter about the Brexit process which has left him in the cold? FFS, the Tories could find a cure for cancer and the Indy would immediately condemn them for not doing it quickly enough and for not having enough working class black Muslim lesbians from tower blocks on their team.

In your imagination?





I'm sure you can google a couple of examples, but as far as I - and pretty much everyone with any modicum of intelligence - have always known, leaving the EU means leaving the single market - for the simple fact the feckin idiotic ideal of freedom of movement has been judged a failure by the British Electorate not only in the EU Referendum, but also the General Election. Why would anyone expect to reject one part of the single market and benefit from the rest?



For clarity, it also means leaving the customs union (or the protectionist customs barrier as it should be known).



No-one ever said it would be easy. We should never have ended up in the grip of the EU in the first place. Extracting yourself from a protectionist cartel is never easy, but it is necessary.



Ideally, we can agree a sort of single market/customs union 'lite' - without the stupid ideals but many of the benefits, even if they come at some minimum tariff, and I imagine that's what the aim is.

Quote Cronus="Cronus"icon_lol.gif You're citing an Indy article and expecting it to be taken seriously? Especially one quoting a man called a 'career psychopath' by David Cameron ffs, and known for stabbing Johnson in the back, for being Gove's wing man, and for being incredibly bitter about the Brexit process which has left him in the cold? FFS, the Tories could find a cure for cancer and the Indy would immediately condemn them for not doing it quickly enough and for not having enough working class black Muslim lesbians from tower blocks on their team.'" More evidence for the story from more left wing sources The daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mince.html London evening standard www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 90086.html The sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4038242/e ... w-deepens/ Seems like you have turned into our own Donald Trump. Anything reported in the press you don't like is fake news.

Quote Cronus="Cronus"icon_lol.gif You're citing an Indy article and expecting it to be taken seriously? Especially one quoting a man called a 'career psychopath' by David Cameron ffs, and known for stabbing Johnson in the back, for being Gove's wing man, and for being incredibly bitter about the Brexit process which has left him in the cold? FFS, the Tories could find a cure for cancer and the Indy would immediately condemn them for not doing it quickly enough and for not having enough working class black Muslim lesbians from tower blocks on their team.'" More evidence for the story from more left wing sources The daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mince.html London evening standard www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 90086.html The sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4038242/e ... w-deepens/ Seems like you have turned into our own Donald Trump. Anything reported in the press you don't like is fake news.

Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"More evidence for the story from more left wing sources The daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mince.html London evening standard www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 90086.html The sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4038242/e ... w-deepens/ Seems like you have turned into our own Donald Trump. Anything reported in the press you don't like is fake news.'" All reporting the same jaundiced opinion from a complete prat?? Hardly different from The Indy article.

Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"More evidence for the story from more left wing sources The daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mince.html London evening standard www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 90086.html The sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4038242/e ... w-deepens/ Seems like you have turned into our own Donald Trump. Anything reported in the press you don't like is fake news.'" All reporting the same jaundiced opinion from a complete prat?? Hardly different from The Indy article.

Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"More evidence for the story from more left wing sources The daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mince.html London evening standard www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 90086.html The sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4038242/e ... w-deepens/ Seems like you have turned into our own Donald Trump. Anything reported in the press you don't like is fake news.'" All reporting the same comments from the same man? Is that the best you can do? Where did I mention fake news? Seeing as you don't seem to understand, I'll explain. They are nothing more than tactical comments made by a bitter man with an agenda.

Quote Durham Giant="Durham Giant"More evidence for the story from more left wing sources The daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... mince.html London evening standard www.standard.co.uk/news/politics ... 90086.html The sun https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4038242/e ... w-deepens/ Seems like you have turned into our own Donald Trump. Anything reported in the press you don't like is fake news.'" All reporting the same comments from the same man? Is that the best you can do? Where did I mention fake news? Seeing as you don't seem to understand, I'll explain. They are nothing more than tactical comments made by a bitter man with an agenda.

I suppose that's opinions for you. The same could be said about you.

Your conclusions regarding the general election being yet another vote for leaving the EU is certainly interesting.

That must be why there has been so much talk of a softer Brexit, compared to May's previous "hard Brexit" stance.

How did you reach your conclusion ?



THe numbers of people that realise that we have probably voted (in the EU Membership referendum) to being a little worse off, seems to be growing and the "leave" lobbyists pretend that we knew this all along.

Sadly, all the campaigning tole the "masses" that we would be better off and blatantly lied about our position outside the EU, some even referred to the remain side as "snowflakes" but it seems that maybe they were right.



Also, the leave brigade sighted the EU as crumbling and yet France, with Macron at the helm have become more pro Europe and other nations still want to join the club, so, perhaps there is still life in the institution.



Of course there is plenty that is wrong with the EU, just as there is with EVERY political system on the planet but, it's still laughable that we see our future dealing with nations that are geographically further away then the EU, which is less convenient for all but, I guess time will tell who was right.



It's interesting that we now want a "staged" exit, to try and avoid a further economic shock and that we are softening our stance.



The turkeys certainly voted for Christmas.

Over £14 for a Big Mac meal with McFlurry here in Switzerland. Are we blaming Brexit for that too?

Switzerland isn't in the EU, and if you're paying £14 for anything branded McDonald's (other than shares) you're a bit daft.

Didn't fancy a long, waiter served mean at 11pm that would cost nearer £100. The fact it's not in the EU is irrelevant to exchange rates.

It's moved consistently between 1.5 - 1.23 over the last 5 years, back in 2003 it was 2-1, hardly a massive impact.

Did you take frosties, pot noddles and baked beans in your suitcase so you wouldn't have to eat foreign muck?

I cant believe that you're shocked but at least they let you in.





Switzerland is the polar opposite of the UK and super strict on immigration and it's a bit too late for the UK to follow that model.

Have you been here recently. Stuffed full of non-Eurpoean immigrants. Noisey bunch. Keep me awake with their shouting til 2.00am, which starts again at 6.00am. In between we have the street cleaning truck to keep me awake. Then the bin lorry. They all seem to make as much noise as they can to keep hotel residents awake. Tonight's snack about £70. At least it tasted rather Breyer than McDs.

It's gone a bit quite for some reason? Are the remainers (sorry - remoaners, so wittty b.t.w.) resigned to the inevitable & given up the fight? Are the Brexiteers finally realising the error of their ways? Either way, Boris finally decides to fess up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... for-brexit

It's gone a bit quite for some reason? Are the remainers (sorry - remoaners, so wittty b.t.w.) resigned to the inevitable & given up the fight? Are the Brexiteers finally realising the error of their ways? Either way, Boris finally decides to fess up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... for-brexit

In the end my leave vote was down to sheer bloody mindedness. Error of my ways? Not at all. If there was the same referendum tomorrow I'd still vote leave. If the referendum did one thing it called our own government out and exposed them for the useless bunch of s we all suspected they were. Cameron ran off like a naughty schoolboy, Osborne lost his bottle despite his cocksure swagger during the campaign, May proved she was a robot and Gove, BoJo & (A)IDS would have trouble exiting a revolving door never mind the EU.

Short term pain for long term gain. People with agendas to make leaving the EU seem as bad a decision as possible thus spiting their own face.

The ever widening trade gap between the UK and the EU which was going to get even bigger/faster was one of the reasons I voted to leave.



And if people think that forced migration by the United Nations* of people from the middle East to Western Europe by the tens/hundreds of millions is a good thing then you've no idea as to how this impacts in a massively detrimental way. *This is a UN mandate btw and is accessible online, they just don't say upfront how they are achieving this but it's there to see on TV.

Ah yes, that old chestnut, what is short term, two years, five years, twenty years?