they talk about making savings.. here's a little story for you. i work for a NHS trust as a nurse in mental health, last August we were all taken on an "away day" to inform our team the trust needs to make 200 million pounds in savings over the next 5 years!

this away day was in a posh hotel, we were fed (£35 per head) and had to take a full shift off work to attend (a night shift in my case which resulted in 2 nights off duty to facilitate my attendance) bank (temp staff) had to be employed to cover our absence. with an external trainer teaching us how to "embrace change" i'm a warrington fan i know how to embrace change ffs!

after 3 months we were brought back to the same hotel with the same costs to be told what the changes involved! why the F didn't they just save the money, re-deploy staff/ make people redundant/merge teams as they did any way and save the cost to the trust for these silly pointless meetings?

multiply that cost over every team (yes the next team is at the hotel next week to be told of the changes that are going to be implimented to them) then multiply it by all the teams in the NHS! WE ARE TALKING MILLIONS OF POUNDS!



NOW INTRODUCE THE REFORMS THAT ARE NOT GOING TO WORK and you've got a whole heap of wasted money!



it makes my blood boil, the irony is they'd probably be better of putting red hall in charge! (that's how bad it's getting!) all i want to do is treat patients and get them better. not sit in some posh hotel and eat posh food! to be told things are changing that are beyond my control! if they actually asked staff how to reform the system they would be given plenty of ideas for appropriate reforms/ money saving ideas!



rant over!

crazy story of wanton waste but a story that needs to be told to the people that have some kind of influence to try to stop this sort of thing



regarding Red Hall, they are about as much use as a tintack in in a jockstrap ! wouldn't wish that bunch of ass*$*!s on anyone !

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/mar/17/nhs-shakeup-health-firms-tax-havens?CMP=twt_guPrivate healthcare providers pay little to no UK tax[/url



No surprise there then, give the business away and then forego any tax. Fooking tories

I wonder if a cleaner at one of those companies could ask for their £6.08 per hour to be paid to them via a Cayman Islands account in order to prevent £1.50 of it being extracted by HMRC ?

that kind of stuff has been going on for years, it's not down to the coalition.

It's down to ordering the public sector to behave like the private sector, including recruiting from the private sector for 'proper' managers, even if that meant hiking pay levels for management jobs to do that.



It's the same reason every police force has an entire press and PR department now, and why HR departments etc have expanded so much, and why so much money is spent on employing the likes of KPMG to work out how to offshore jobs etc.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17419609 They'd have my vote

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-17419609 They'd have my vote

The government should be ashamed of themselves.

There's no chance of that – they're simply doing what they've promised their mates in the private sector:– helping them line their pockets.



And then there are individuals like Lib-Dem MP John Hemming, who is helping to sell off the NHS while at the same time putting down an EDM on the metrification of the English language, as in 'ton of bricks'.



His Twitter account name is johnhemmingmp – he'll have to change that after the next election.

single policy politicians, always a great idea.

It was enough to get shut of the Hamiltons from Tatton. Mind you, look at the oik that eventually turned up there.



It's also a perfectly valid method of protest, especially when the members of the incumbent government are railroading through a piece of legislation that is so universally hated and never appeared in either party's manifesto

Any worse than omitting your real policy from your manifestos?

Any worse than implementing a policy that's 180 degrees from what you did say?

Any worse than appointing a Health Minister who had election donations from a private health company director?

Quote El Barbudo="El Barbudo"Any worse than omitting your real policy from your manifestos? Any worse than implementing a policy that's 180 degrees from what you did say? '" The Tories NHS policy was set out in their manifesto. The problem is people chose not to read these things and rely on misrepresentation by opposition parties. See pp 45-49: www.general-election-2010.co.uk/ ... o-2010.pdf

Quote El Barbudo="El Barbudo"Any worse than omitting your real policy from your manifestos? Any worse than implementing a policy that's 180 degrees from what you did say? '" The Tories NHS policy was set out in their manifesto. The problem is people chose not to read these things and rely on misrepresentation by opposition parties. See pp 45-49: www.general-election-2010.co.uk/ ... o-2010.pdf

Quote Dally="Dally"The Tories NHS policy was set out in their manifesto. The problem is people chose not to read these things and rely on misrepresentation by opposition parties. See pp 45-49: www.general-election-2010.co.uk/ ... o-2010.pdf'" It says: "We will back the NHS". It does not mention splitting it up and selling off the NHS to Tory backers, including those who have been funding La La Lansley for years. There are reasons that the coalition does not to reveal the risk register. There are reasons the coalition is completely ignoring the concerns of health professionals themselves. And let's remember, as Cameron said: "There will be no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS". He lied. Let us be quite clear about this: the PM is a liar. And as for the garbage about patients wanting "choice", it was garbage under Labour and it is still garbage. Patients do not want "choice" – they don't want to be given a list of hospitals and sent away to choose which one to ring up and book an appointment with. This is utter and complete bullery. Patients want reliable, safe health care near to their home. It's that simple. And as for the liar Cameron mentioning MRSA in the manifesto – it was his tard party that privatised so-called 'soft services' in the NHS, which, as a result, saw the number of cleaners halved while infection rates rose, because profits are more important than human beings if you're a tard Tory. And just to repeat in case anyone missed it – Cameron is a liar.

Quote Dally="Dally"The Tories NHS policy was set out in their manifesto. The problem is people chose not to read these things and rely on misrepresentation by opposition parties. See pp 45-49: www.general-election-2010.co.uk/ ... o-2010.pdf'" It says: "We will back the NHS". It does not mention splitting it up and selling off the NHS to Tory backers, including those who have been funding La La Lansley for years. There are reasons that the coalition does not to reveal the risk register. There are reasons the coalition is completely ignoring the concerns of health professionals themselves. And let's remember, as Cameron said: "There will be no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS". He lied. Let us be quite clear about this: the PM is a liar. And as for the garbage about patients wanting "choice", it was garbage under Labour and it is still garbage. Patients do not want "choice" – they don't want to be given a list of hospitals and sent away to choose which one to ring up and book an appointment with. This is utter and complete bullery. Patients want reliable, safe health care near to their home. It's that simple. And as for the liar Cameron mentioning MRSA in the manifesto – it was his tard party that privatised so-called 'soft services' in the NHS, which, as a result, saw the number of cleaners halved while infection rates rose, because profits are more important than human beings if you're a tard Tory. And just to repeat in case anyone missed it – Cameron is a liar.

I wasn't aware of the NHS being broken up. The idea is that it remainds free to the user but different services may be provided by different organisations. Indeed, a huge part of it has been privatised in exactly that way for years - GP surgeries!



The re-organisation is supposed to be bottom up - from the GPS / etc.



Whilst I totally disagree with re-organisation I am not sure you can say that they were not honest about their proposals.



On a wider point Cameron said quite clearly during the election campaign that if elected (I can not recall the exact phrase, but in essence as follows) that they would hugely change Britain and its society forever. In other words, that they would rip up the post-War state machinery that people like us have been brought up with and, presumably, make up more of a US type state. Hideous maybe, but dishonest not.

Quote Dally="Dally"The Tories NHS policy was set out in their manifesto. The problem is people chose not to read these things and rely on misrepresentation by opposition parties. See pp 45-49: www.general-election-2010.co.uk/ ... o-2010.pdf'" That's not a policy, it's a glossy wishlist with the scary stuff (i.e. the "how"icon_wink.gif omitted. Yes, people do choose not to read these things ... but many relied on misrepresentation by David Cameron.

Quote Dally="Dally"The Tories NHS policy was set out in their manifesto. The problem is people chose not to read these things and rely on misrepresentation by opposition parties. See pp 45-49: www.general-election-2010.co.uk/ ... o-2010.pdf'" That's not a policy, it's a glossy wishlist with the scary stuff (i.e. the "how"icon_wink.gif omitted. Yes, people do choose not to read these things ... but many relied on misrepresentation by David Cameron.

A manifesto, by it's nature is just a broad overview. Otherwise, it would run to thousands of pages and not serve it's purpose.



Again, I do not believe he misrepresented.

So when he said there would be no top-down reorganisation .... that was not a misrepresentation?

"There will be no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS."



He then oversees exactly that, dismissing the views of the majority of those working in the NHS to impose change.



In other words, he lied. David Cameron is a liar.



And the manifesto is wishy-washy bølløcks.



Still, if it took you in ...

That pile of crap you linked to is 130+ (although one page is Dave pretending to write it, and some others appear to be Pythonesque graphs) Not that broad an overview

you mean like Wilson,Heath,Callaghan,Thatcher,Major,BLIAR & Brown ?

I mean to the extent =of campaigning on specific pledges – and then, when in office, going straight back on those pledges. Why? Because he knows that the British love the NHS and if he'd told the truth, he would not have been anywhere near Downing Street.



That's why he had to lie; that's why, in spite of being ordered to do so by courts, he and his lackeys have still refused to reveal the risk register. But as long as the private health companies he had secret meetings with, and the private health companies that have funded La La Lansley for years can make loads more money (and then probably take it out of the country or at least avoid paying tax on it) he won't care a toss.



Blair was dismal – another believer in neo-liberal nonsense and a liar over the war. Thatcher started the entire neo-liberal attack on this country, deciding that we could get rid of industry and develop and live off a culture of 'aspirationalism' – or put another way, keeping up with the Joneses turned into a virtue. And that's without mentioning privatisation – another policy Blair continued.



Wilson? Kept us out of Vietnam and founded the Open University, so his is the most positive legacy in decades, methinks.



But back to Cameron. Specific lies, told to the electorate and then reneged on the minute he gained office.



Still, it'll also make the disgusting Daniel Hannan happy.

And the thing is, unless the whole NHS experiment fails absolutely terribly and with tragic consequences, I can see the Tories winning the next election with an absolute majority.



Mainly because there is no-one else to oppose them at the moment and probably won't be at the next election.

I wouldn't be so sure on that.



True, Labour have been somewhat lacking in policy apart from, "we wouldn't do that". But I think Miliband Minor is far from stupid. I reckon we'll soon see a shadow cabinet re-shuffle with balls Balls and no-balls Balls swapping places. Ed Balls is still tainted by his stint with Gordon Brown and basically he comes across as nothing more than a gob[is[/ihite, Yvette Cooper is a shrewder beast alltogether and Gideon would find debating with her difficult to say the least. Rachael Reeves could also give Gideon a run for his money but she does need to ditch that estuarial accent. Chuka Ummuna is another one who I reckon will benefit from accelerated promotion.



There's been no need so far for Labour to proclaim any policies but they'd better be ready because after the failure of last year's [url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12657524Most pro-growth budget ever[/url, if this year's results in even more borowing and stifled growth, we could be in for some serious slanging matches