How about that old slag Thatcher for creating an underclass in our society that will never go away now?

I'd dig her up and have her in the dock along with Phoney Tony.

In other news - I'm happy to report that after an extensive international procurement exercise involving me, my online financial specialists, Walmart and a specialist distribution operative, I took delivery of 4,000 pieces of PPE; prior to the Tory rebranding, traditionally and perhaps colloquially known as ordering a 4 pack of bog rolls off of Asda.

8,000 pieces if it's 2-ply. Your cup runneth over if it's 3-ply.

Quote IR80="IR80"StIll waitong for Blair to face trial....'" I wonder who helped in arming Iraq? https://www.ft.com/content/52add2c4-30b ... 144feabdc0 or who voted for it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_P ... on_of_Iraq

Quote IR80="IR80"StIll waitong for Blair to face trial....'" I wonder who helped in arming Iraq? https://www.ft.com/content/52add2c4-30b ... 144feabdc0 or who voted for it https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_P ... on_of_Iraq

Who keeps arming Saudi Arabia, who kept supporting South Africa during apartheid and who treated a known dictator and murderer of his own people.

Whilst ever we manufacture arms/ships/aircraft/tanks i.e. items used in warfare we have to sell them to somebody - not sure we can sell it all to Switzerland?

Do we really ??



Yes, manufacturing these items would mean that we COULD sell them to other nations but it doesn't mean that we HAVE to ??

We could just produce equipment for our own armed forces and not feel that we have to supply other nations / groups.



Of course there can be deals done to reciprocate the supply of arms but, when we begin to offer such things to "unstable" governments / nations, there is always the danger that they will be used either against us or against our allies.

The only reason that some of these things are sold to "dodgy" organisations is to make money.

Not the only reason surely. There are the 135k quality jobs and that's just those directly employed. How many would be lost if we stopped exports?

And there is the conundrum.



If we are saying that there has to be that number of employees within the industry, to enable us to arm and protect ourselves and the consequence of that is that there will be "X" spare capacity, then a decision has to be made as to whether to allow the excess "stock" to be sold elsewhere and how to control those sales or, should the industry be "shrunk", in order to prevent having to "chase" sales to "dodgy" customers.



You would think where the supply of arms is concerned, it should be on a defence and safety remit and not just selling additional arms because we have over capacity ??

So if you were in charge how many of those people would you sack? And therein lies the problem. I wish, like you, that it was a perfect world without the need for arms. But it isn't and if we don't sell them someone else will.

If we were a member of the EU we could have a coordinated manufacture & procurement policy plus a ready market, hence an economy of scale.

There is an episode of 'Yes Minister' where Jim Hacker faces a moral dilemma when he learns that British manufactured arms are ending up in the hands of Italian terrorists.



Brings a little humour to your comments and is worth a look.



"Yes Minister" Series 3. Episode 6. "The Whiskey Priest".

I think you are missing a point - the R&D required on some of these projects is vast - similar to pharmaceuticals - unless you can spread this cost over volume of product it is simply uneconomic to develop cutting edge technology. No point going into battle with one hand tied behind your back because the planes/tanks are not up to it. So unless you think the British tax payer should pay well over the odds what is the alternative - these businesses employ tens of thousands of people.

Why would we it didn't happen when were a member what would change if we had stayed in?

The biographer for Boris Johnson was on the radio earlier and when asked he didn't know how may children he had (abandoned). To be fair to him though he is consistent, in that he doesn't want to tell us an accurate birth or death rate.

My comment was a bit of a wind up. In reality we did have coordinated policies for the Tornado and Eurofighter. Both however were flawed designs but as the Saudis have a history of buying British I suspect a deal was done to ensure continuity even though it was politically embarrassing.

And therein lays the conundrum.



You would expect that "allies" would share their technology (up to a point) but, regardless of cost and loss of business, arming dangerous groups should be absolutely off limits.

Of course there is diplomacy at work all over the world and deals done for all sorts of reasons but, the rationale of selling arms to the Saudis "because we have to sell them somewhere to balance the book" is just ridiculous.



Lets face it, the majority of recent conflicts involving the UK have been over oil or drugs, ultimately falling at the feet of our major ally, the USofA

So I'll ask again. How many thousands of jobs (people) are you willing to lose so we can salve your conscience? I don't mean this in a confrontational way but there would be a huge financial cost to individuals in taking the moral high ground. Would you be willing to sack them?

Counter question - Industries get wiped out all the time. The British coal, steel, textile, shoemaking and pottery industries have either all but gone, or have been reduced to miniscule operations in the grand scheme of things. Why does the arms industry get a free pass?

Because its one thing that we are very good at innovation - and its where the UK really a powerhouse. If we look at all the other things you mentioned these are commoditised they can be produced anywhere - we cannot manufacture mass produced products cost effectively that is not the future for high cost populations. Highly sophisticated planes/tanks etc now that is a different ball game.

As the saying goes keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer - if they are reliant on you for spare parts etc. to keep their war effort alive I doubt they will bite the hand that feeds

Although, and rightly so, it's a done deal with most of us, I wonder if Bozza will set a new record this evening, in the obvious, by telling us what a magnificent job our NHS are doing?

It could reach double figure proportion.

I haven't said it gets a free pass. People are questioning the morals of it and I'm asking how many jobs would people be prepared to lose. Simple question really that hasn't been answered yet.

Liked the Alpine tunnel analogy from our fearless leader.

Kuenssberg is Bozza's bitch.

Witty is weird.

Great performance by Bojo whilst flanked by 2 brilliant minds. Bojo resonates with the country.