Quote ="Sal Paradise"A greater emphasis in turning raw materials into finished products and the technology that supports it - in a word ">manufacturing.'" One major problem with that is the fact we can't do it cheaply enough, hence why a lot of it is done abroad. My own view is that we need to do a lot more of the things we're good at (designing, engineering, marketing etc) as a lead into making things abroad. In fact that's already happening - most car manufacturers have the R&D departments here, for instance.

Quote ="Sal Paradise"A greater emphasis in turning raw materials into finished products and the technology that supports it - in a word ">manufacturing.'" One major problem with that is the fact we can't do it cheaply enough, hence why a lot of it is done abroad. My own view is that we need to do a lot more of the things we're good at (designing, engineering, marketing etc) as a lead into making things abroad. In fact that's already happening - most car manufacturers have the R&D departments here, for instance.

Indeed, German businesses have only recently started accepting credit cards.





Actually, we haven't, not all of it.

Stats are bandied about showing how the manufacturing workforce in the UK has declined dramatically ... but these stats don't usually take into account the fact that, in the old days, a canteen worker in a factory was counted as working in manufacturing but nowadays that function is most likely contracted-out ... ditto for security, IT services, cleaning, back-office functions etc etc., thereby making the stats look even far worse than they otherwise would be.

But your point does still stand, our manufacturing output has declined more than Germany's.

If Germany can retain its manufacturing, why can't we?

There is a general and erroneous notion here that all German industry is in the high-end, high-profit areas but, whilst they do make a lot of higher-end goods, they also make pencils and everyday commodities.



To me, the biggest differences are ...

1. The way in which German management and workforce in manufacturing collaborate rather than conflict, enabling the workforce to feel a sort of ownership and pride in the product and in doing a good job.

2. The German view is usually in the longer term (saving to get the cash to build their own home, for example) and this is reflected in German banks taking a longer term view of their loans to business, again seeing it as a collaboration. Where a British bank will pull the plug and forclose on a business at the first sign of anything negative, a German bank is more likely to turn up and offer to help to sort the problem out.

Quote ="El Barbudo"Indeed, German businesses have only recently started accepting credit cards. Actually, we haven't, not all of it. Stats are bandied about showing how the manufacturing workforce in the UK has declined dramatically ... but these stats don't usually take into account the fact that, in the old days, a canteen worker in a factory was counted as working in manufacturing but nowadays that function is most likely contracted-out ... ditto for security, IT services, cleaning, back-office functions etc etc., thereby making the stats look even far worse than they otherwise would be. But your point does still stand, our manufacturing output has declined more than Germany's. If Germany can retain its manufacturing, why can't we? There is a general and erroneous notion here that all German industry is in the high-end, high-profit areas but, whilst they do make a lot of higher-end goods, they also make pencils and everyday commodities. To me, the biggest differences are ... 1. The way in which German management and workforce in manufacturing collaborate rather than conflict, enabling the workforce to feel a sort of ownership and pride in the product and in doing a good job. 2. The German view is usually in the longer term (saving to get the cash to build their own home, for example) and this is reflected in German banks taking a longer term view of their loans to business, again seeing it as a collaboration. Where a British bank will pull the plug and forclose on a business at the first sign of anything negative, a German bank is more likely to turn up and offer to help to sort the problem ">out.'" Nail, head. my bank in germany hypovereinsbank, only gave me a cash card when i first opened my account.. for 4 months, the deal is they want to see if im careful with money. imagine that in Uk. secondly the bank manager rings me up when im at work and asks me how im doing, is there anything she can do to make my service better, i said could i use my new debitcard in england, as at christmas it was blocked ( perhaps not the bank but the card is a maestro not as commonly used) she said no problem. while i try to bumble in my 8 months of german, ha. the other thing that makes me laugh is they have a mark on equipment that says in english, 'made in germany' apparently its abit of a one up on america and england for inferior quality products, yet i still find old tools made in england, my collegues say the new stuff is crap, which is true, im a plumber i know the diffenence. but the old stuff was made to last. What happened? my boss at the moment is just one of thousands in the Munich area that buys land in the countryside and builds a bloody great big house, with whiste and bells and would need a direct nuclear strike to level it. El Barbudo you are correct that building a house provides investment in the future it does. People here in Germany ( apart form typical quick money men/women) are in for the long run. A draw back from this is i think a massive depression problem, i wish i had shares in vallium. twice last week was my U-bahn stopped bacause of suicide, perhaps that is a Munich thing because on the land its pretty cheery and relaxed while Munich is much like london, Apart from prowling gangs, fear for one life by going down the wrong street etc. I am proud of my country, to be a miner's lad and always will be and i feel like like my country is falling through my hands like sand at the moment, why cant we be at the forefront again, punching above our weight in education and technology . We had the smartest minds in the world at one time or another. where is our modern day Brunel or Dirac? Think Graphene, think Skylon engines, think fusion. we have these technologies in Britain, and my cynical side is who's the highest bidder going to be. We cant think short we have to think for our children's children . Sorry for the rant. im now going to have a Franzikaner.

Quote ="El Barbudo"Indeed, German businesses have only recently started accepting credit cards. Actually, we haven't, not all of it. Stats are bandied about showing how the manufacturing workforce in the UK has declined dramatically ... but these stats don't usually take into account the fact that, in the old days, a canteen worker in a factory was counted as working in manufacturing but nowadays that function is most likely contracted-out ... ditto for security, IT services, cleaning, back-office functions etc etc., thereby making the stats look even far worse than they otherwise would be. But your point does still stand, our manufacturing output has declined more than Germany's. If Germany can retain its manufacturing, why can't we? There is a general and erroneous notion here that all German industry is in the high-end, high-profit areas but, whilst they do make a lot of higher-end goods, they also make pencils and everyday commodities. To me, the biggest differences are ... 1. The way in which German management and workforce in manufacturing collaborate rather than conflict, enabling the workforce to feel a sort of ownership and pride in the product and in doing a good job. 2. The German view is usually in the longer term (saving to get the cash to build their own home, for example) and this is reflected in German banks taking a longer term view of their loans to business, again seeing it as a collaboration. Where a British bank will pull the plug and forclose on a business at the first sign of anything negative, a German bank is more likely to turn up and offer to help to sort the problem ">out.'" Nail, head. my bank in germany hypovereinsbank, only gave me a cash card when i first opened my account.. for 4 months, the deal is they want to see if im careful with money. imagine that in Uk. secondly the bank manager rings me up when im at work and asks me how im doing, is there anything she can do to make my service better, i said could i use my new debitcard in england, as at christmas it was blocked ( perhaps not the bank but the card is a maestro not as commonly used) she said no problem. while i try to bumble in my 8 months of german, ha. the other thing that makes me laugh is they have a mark on equipment that says in english, 'made in germany' apparently its abit of a one up on america and england for inferior quality products, yet i still find old tools made in england, my collegues say the new stuff is crap, which is true, im a plumber i know the diffenence. but the old stuff was made to last. What happened? my boss at the moment is just one of thousands in the Munich area that buys land in the countryside and builds a bloody great big house, with whiste and bells and would need a direct nuclear strike to level it. El Barbudo you are correct that building a house provides investment in the future it does. People here in Germany ( apart form typical quick money men/women) are in for the long run. A draw back from this is i think a massive depression problem, i wish i had shares in vallium. twice last week was my U-bahn stopped bacause of suicide, perhaps that is a Munich thing because on the land its pretty cheery and relaxed while Munich is much like london, Apart from prowling gangs, fear for one life by going down the wrong street etc. I am proud of my country, to be a miner's lad and always will be and i feel like like my country is falling through my hands like sand at the moment, why cant we be at the forefront again, punching above our weight in education and technology . We had the smartest minds in the world at one time or another. where is our modern day Brunel or Dirac? Think Graphene, think Skylon engines, think fusion. we have these technologies in Britain, and my cynical side is who's the highest bidder going to be. We cant think short we have to think for our children's children . Sorry for the rant. im now going to have a Franzikaner.

Quote ="Pat Bateman"Sorry for the rant. im now going to have a ">Franzikaner.'" As an aside, I just found out that my local Tesco carries this. Good times. icon_smile.gif" alt="icon_smile.gif" title="Smile" />

Quote ="Pat Bateman"Sorry for the rant. im now going to have a ">Franzikaner.'" As an aside, I just found out that my local Tesco carries this. Good times. icon_smile.gif" alt="icon_smile.gif" title="Smile" />

Quote ="El Barbudo"My suggestion is for Cameron to get the EU working time directive changed. It should be changed to have a maximum working week of 35 hours. Bingo, jobs galore available. It's only an extension of what he's been doing anyway, which has been replacing full-time jobs with part-time ">ones.'" I must stop posting ideas on here, Blanchflower has taken this idea and run with it in this week's New Statesman. He makes the point that it would allow the underemployed to increase their hours and earnings.

Quote ="El Barbudo"My suggestion is for Cameron to get the EU working time directive changed. It should be changed to have a maximum working week of 35 hours. Bingo, jobs galore available. It's only an extension of what he's been doing anyway, which has been replacing full-time jobs with part-time ">ones.'" I must stop posting ideas on here, Blanchflower has taken this idea and run with it in this week's New Statesman. He makes the point that it would allow the underemployed to increase their hours and earnings.

Quote ="Pat Bateman" ... Sorry for the rant. im now going to have a ">Franzikaner.'" A wonderful beer! Enjoy!

Quote ="Pat Bateman" ... Sorry for the rant. im now going to have a ">Franzikaner.'" A wonderful beer! Enjoy!