wrencat1873 wrote:There is no disagreement regarding their nomadic status or, their fanbase, which is largely due to them moving home so frequently. Their primary strength and the main reason for them being a good option, is their development of players, from a pool that may note exist without their presence down south and from a sporting point of view, being condemned to relegation before a ball has been passed or kicked. Maybe this is just teething troubles for the new criteria but, it doesn't sit well. Ofc, we all have to wait for the IMC scores to be published in a couple of weeks but, there will no doubt be some surprises.
As for London, the look to be a busted flush.
Again you are right abouth their wealthy backer but, London are not on their own in this respect, not by some distance.
Okay so this is an arguement frequently banded about that I’ve previously pressed on. Maybe you can assist as it’s your justification for London being a success in some way.
Can you name me from all SL teams a list of full time players from London Broncos set up? Not part time players who play for London this season who out of necessity played and struggled but actual top level talent.
I asked this of other fans and they came back with Loui Scarsbrook who retired a bit back and were scratching their heads otherwise.
I disagree because it’s actually littered with talent and previous youth pathways from clubs in the heartlands or outside of London.
If you can name a good amount then I’ll happily discuss further.
Even trinity have players dotted about at other clubs at top level and an absolute ton at champ and league 1 level. Enough to name a few teams.
Unless you know more then I think you’ve probably just read a few of the grasping articles from Eccles and co to try beg for dispensation or exemption.
As for the point about a pool not existing. That applies to every club and their respective pathways, it’s not something London have stood out or excelled with, in fact are below average at.
Trojan Horse wrote: Can you name me from all SL teams a list of full time players from London Broncos set up? Not part time players who play for London this season who out of necessity played and struggled but actual top level talent.
I asked this of other fans and they came back with Loui Scarsbrook who retired a bit back and were scratching their heads otherwise.
Not sure if I've misunderstood what you're saying but there are a lot of fairly obvious success stories in terms of playing in SL who have come through the junior ranks at London. As well as Mccarthy-Scarsbrook, there are other internationals such as Tony Clubb, Kai Pearce-Paul, Dan Sarginson, Mike McMeeken, then there's Kieren Dixon who played for England Knights, also Matt Davis, Welsh international Michael Channing, Mason Caton-Brown and there are a handful who will probably rack up more SL appearances next year having switched to full-time teams with Bill Leyland being the obvious one with star potential amongst them.
However I agree with your previous post that the London club has been an absolute basket case in terms of how they have been run for many years, I've been following the Broncos forum on RLFans for a long time and it's been a litany of grim tales of how not to run a RL club and how to alienate the fan base.
The Phantom Horseman wrote:Not sure if I've misunderstood what you're saying but there are a lot of fairly obvious success stories in terms of playing in SL who have come through the junior ranks at London. As well as Mccarthy-Scarsbrook, there are other internationals such as Tony Clubb, Kai Pearce-Paul, Dan Sarginson, Mike McMeeken, then there's Kieren Dixon who played for England Knights, also Matt Davis, Welsh international Michael Channing, Mason Caton-Brown and there are a handful who will probably rack up more SL appearances next year having switched to full-time teams with Bill Leyland being the obvious one with star potential amongst them.
However I agree with your previous post that the London club has been an absolute basket case in terms of how they have been run for many years, I've been following the Broncos forum on RLFans for a long time and it's been a litany of grim tales of how not to run a RL club and how to alienate the fan base.
Thanks for the reply but I am talking currently active players. That list is mainly obsolete now bar the odd couple. And even that list over many decades is very slim compared to most SL clubs.
It was more in response to that being the reason the poster highlighted that London were deserving of SL or exemption. Nobody can ever provide an extensive list that matches most other clubs that’s all yet proceed to use that in justification.
I don’t doubt there are a handful but it’s nowhere significant to call it close to a success imho.
It’s a real shame that the Broncos have been run as they have because I’d hazard if they’d been smarter and more efficient they perhaps could be in a much more prosperous position today.
Trojan Horse wrote:Thanks for the reply but I am talking currently active players. That list is mainly obsolete now bar the odd couple. And even that list over many decades is very slim compared to most SL clubs.
It was more in response to that being the reason the poster highlighted that London were deserving of SL or exemption. Nobody can ever provide an extensive list that matches most other clubs that’s all yet proceed to use that in justification.
I don’t doubt there are a handful but it’s nowhere significant to call it close to a success imho.
It’s a real shame that the Broncos have been run as they have because I’d hazard if they’d been smarter and more efficient they perhaps could be in a much more prosperous position today.
I don't disagree with any of that. I suppose what you would say is that a lot of those players might have never had a pathway and been completely lost to RL without the Broncos, which does kind of accentuate their importance.
However, what we keep coming back to is the fact that the club has been so badly run. Their much-improved IMG score this year is going to be almost 100% on the back of a year's SL occupancy and the boosts that gives - attendance, sponsorship, etc. They earned their previous lowly score entirely on merit. A lot of people like the idea of a club in London, and understandably so, but the reality is the Broncos have been nowhere near a SL outfit off the field for many years; they were basically London Skolars, but in a the division above, for a long time.
The Phantom Horseman wrote:I don't disagree with any of that. I suppose what you would say is that a lot of those players might have never had a pathway and been completely lost to RL without the Broncos, which does kind of accentuate their importance.
However, what we keep coming back to is the fact that the club has been so badly run. Their much-improved IMG score this year is going to be almost 100% on the back of a year's SL occupancy and the boosts that gives - attendance, sponsorship, etc. They earned their previous lowly score entirely on merit. A lot of people like the idea of a club in London, and understandably so, but the reality is the Broncos have been nowhere near a SL outfit off the field for many years; they were basically London Skolars, but in a the division above, for a long time.
While you do disagree with that you’ve yet just like the poster I replied to provide any list of players currently in SL, championship and League 1 even from the London pathway and currently playing and that this is of a level that justifies both Eccles and some posters comments that london broncos are a successful expansion team. As I said before a handful of players spanning a decade doesn’t convince me. You can disagree and that’s fine but if you disagree with that point I’m sure you’d have the knowledge of players to back that up. I don’t and honestly can’t think of many, certainly not to the level I’d call it a success weighted against other SL clubs. If you can list plenty certainly currently in the top flight full time I’d happily listen but I haven’t seen that forthcoming in your posts so can’t really shift my opinion.
We do agree on the second part though. I look at clubs like York and think the potential there is far more along with being much better run. I don’t want London to struggle as much as I don’t think they’re any where near worthy of SL and won’t be for years. But to do that now that the owner has pulled out alot will depend on if and who the new owners are and if they can plan continual improvement. Will likely take patience and money though and not the slapdash approach that their fans have been subjected to.
4/5 of their players already moving to SL and another 4/5 already snapped up by Championship clubs.
Their lack of a stable base has absolutely stuffed them over the years and nobody knows what may have been.
As for a list of super stars, there aren't many but, even Trinity, with our 25 unbroken years in SL, cant boast a huge list of homegrown superstars.
The fundamental point with them was that they gained promotion and were doomed to relegated before the season began. now, call me stupid but, in those circumstances, who in their right mind is going to throw the kitchen sink at a squad that "may" have been able to compete. 3 wins for the season (the same as FC) is absolutely dire and would see them relegated in a "normal" season. However, what is undeniable, is that the sport has managed to lose a millionaire backer and probably ensured that London disappear and by any measure and regardless of the fact that they're not worthy of a SL spot, this is a poor effort from those "running" the sport.
Joined: Oct 04 2008 Posts: 21029 Location: wakefield
I agree. But the millionaire backer can't just say ill stay if I was in Super League. He could have used his money to get a longer lease on a permanent home and aimed to get more IMG points. He's got 1 point head start on us.
A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker. A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker - Buddha
You can put a fairly decent 13 out of London-produced players that are in SL, have been in SL recently for other clubs, or top champ players:
Alex Walker (London) Kieran Dixon (Widnes) James Meadows (Bradford) Bill Leyland (Hull KR) James Woodburn-Hall (Halifax) Joe Keyes (Bradford) Oli Leyland (Warrington) Lewis Bienek (London) Sam Davis (Salford) Rob Butler (London) Mike McMeeken (Treble winners) Sadiq Adebeyi (London) Matt Davis (Leigh)
Then a small litter of other lads who have spent their careers in Champ and League 1. I’m not trying to say that’s a remarkable production line, but it’s a lot more than Leigh, Salford, Huddersfield, and - without looking into every club - many other SL clubs. So I think, on balance, it’s a fair thing for them to brag about.
I agree that London shouldn’t have been given special treatment under this system or any other, but I also understand why they tried - can you imagine what we’ll see if Huddersfield or Leigh are under threat?!
What London need, and have always needed, is a permanent home (difficult in a city that’s parcelled up into incredibly expensive plots with no appetite for community amenities and dominated by fickle football clubs), a community outreach team, and a boat load of money to spend on marketing (also exorbitant in London).
The player pathway is there, the potential fanbase is there (either diaspora league fans in west London or an untapped working class community in south east London). But if what’s happening to Wakey right now has taught me anything, it’s that RL clubs need money. And in London, you’d need twice as much. I don’t think Hughes is that rich.
As I’ve said before, there are two possibilities from here: either an extremely well off owner comes forward (unlikely given they’ve got about 3,000 fans in total), or they form a supporters trust and bounce between League 1 and Champ for a few years.
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