Phuzzy wrote:I think Jonh's post covers pretty much everything from last night but I'd like to add a few more general points that are not necessarily to do with yesterday's game but can equally apply to it.
Firstly, our right edge doesn't work. Moreso without French. I don't think the AK/Miski partnership works as it stands as there is no disruptor. That's not a pop at either player individually but I think it's showing up in Miski's indifferent form. King, whatever his limitations, was a disruptor. His strong carries meant that he and Miski together were able to put us on the front foot and often attacking an unorganised defensive line. We have lost that now and Miski on his own is struggling to make an impact. King's offload, or even the potential to offload, also commited defenders and often caused broken field play. We see the same on the left with Wardle's footwork. Last night we had Faz there which just compounded the issue. Without French there is no one on that left edge capable of disrupting defences. We can be nullified on that edge through simple defensive systems.
It's not a lost cause though. Nsemba getting back to making his offloads, allowing Farrimiond more latitude to run, Eckersley to centre, Fields return and, of course, when French comes back all negate the problem there. I also think we need to use AK differently. He doesn't have the power or offload of King or the footwork of Wardle but he's played regularly at 6 so has hands. We need to utilise this more when he's back or, alternatively, a Eckersley/Miski or Keighran/Douglas partnership is a more balanced fit in my opinion.
Apologies for the long post on a single issue but I think it's been a problem that a winning team hasn't perhaps needed to address but, with French a long term absentee, it needs to be sorted now or we'll remain one dimensional with the threat only coming down the left.
Good post, I really like Miski but it is quite annoying when he has to cut inside when we have an overlap due to lack of pace.
Eckerlsey looks an explosive athletic and still carries the ball strong, taller than Miski too so many better under the high ball.
Keighran centre Eckerlsey wing could work
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Wire_91 wrote:its your first final in about 8 years and now you ravin and rantin about it F**k off, and ill be going old trafford tomoz cheering on the saints and ill be writing on this forum givin you loads of shi* when your drying you eyes and the wire fan will be here handing out the tissues in the thousands, thats if you do take that many fans cause now it looks like its your fans who have jumped on the band wagon now your in a final, this time last year there was only 1000 people in the jjb and now its fillin up cause youve won the league hahaha proper true supporters you are
Zig wrote:Jon, I think that is an excellent summary. Three things I would add is that we need to stop selecting players out of position, treat that ball like a bar of gold, and we may need to sign a hooker as well if O'Neill is out long term as, I am led to believe that Forber is going to Salford.
I understand that Forber will be fit in 2/3 weeks, certainly back before O'Neil? Is the Salford move a loan deal? If we sell him we will regret it big time.
Its now set up for a Leeming/Forber combo for the rest of the season, I think Ratchford isn't ready yet and the other option is Kerr who has been covering at hooker in the reserves and isn't even experienced at that level.
I like Miski, he's strong and can usually find the corner to score. He's never been a Marshall or Manfredi that can score full lengthers or even from halfway, but that's no bad thing....just look at Makinson at Saints, he rarely scores from distance either.
I think his confidence is lower this season so far, he's had a new centre partnership that's not yet produced much as he's not had good service in good position (Keighran fails to release the ball most times), whereas King/Miski last was as devastating on the RHS as Marshall/Wardle was on the LHS.
Big question is, do we try make a move for King at the end of the season (heard his contract is up). But then what do we do with Keighran? For me not impressed yet other than great goal kicker, plus a liability in defence which has seen him receive a few yellows/reds.
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MattyB wrote:I like Miski, he's strong and can usually find the corner to score. He's never been a Marshall or Manfredi that can score full lengthers or even from halfway, but that's no bad thing....just look at Makinson at Saints, he rarely scores from distance either.
I think his confidence is lower this season so far, he's had a new centre partnership that's not yet produced much as he's not had good service in good position (Keighran fails to release the ball most times), whereas King/Miski last was as devastating on the RHS as Marshall/Wardle was on the LHS.
Big question is, do we try make a move for King at the end of the season (heard his contract is up). But then what do we do with Keighran? For me not impressed yet other than great goal kicker, plus a liability in defence which has seen him receive a few yellows/reds.
Not sure if Miski is fully fit, he started the season with a lot of strapping on his leg and looks a bit low in confidence as if he is maybe carrying an injury? Maybe a game or two out might help him. But obviously being very low on experienced players this might not be a viable option.
Keighran is a frustrating one, sometimes there looks to be a decent enough player in there but the frequent bans and knocks stall any momentum he gets and means that he has to start again and before long is out of the team again. If he could get an extended run in the team we could get a better idea of his performance level and it might help Miski having a settled centre alongside him.
King I am not sure is an option - would probably cost too much and what would be do with Keighran who will probably be one a decent wage as well and we couldn't just get rid of him, also would we want to block Eckersley getting an extended run in his favoured position?
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You have a great squad, but I'm not at all surprised to hear that Walters isn't cutting it. He was massively over-hyped by Sky in his last season with us - Jon Wilkin even claimed he was our best player. I would have liked to have kept him at Leeds given our lack of size in the pack, but there are some reasons why you should be cautious with him.
Before Rowan Smith joined Leeds, Walters was knocking about the first team. He'd occasionally score a sensational try running off a good line out wide, but Agar evidently didn't trust him defensively and there were some really shocking defensive lapses around marker and on our goal line.
When RS came in he quickly promoted Widnes boys Walters and O'Connor to the first team. O'Connor hasn't missed a game since because he just works hard - maybe not the most skilled or physically blessed, but he's a good team player. Smith wanted to use Walters as a prop because we were short in that position, and he looked decent going forward, but the same defensive issues occasionally got highlighted. Personally, I preferred him spelled at prop - he scored fewer show pony tries but at the same time it meant he had to concentrate for shorter periods of time on the field. I get the sense that Smith wanted Walters to earn his place in the first team at the start of 2023, and he took umbrage that he wasn't an instant pick like O'Connor, and was also expected to play prop instead of second row.
He signed for Wigan just before Smith brought him back into the team. It was disappointing, and he scored a few more eye catching tries in the games that followed (I think he got away with bashing up a Saints player in the last game we won against them too). However, as the season wore on, his form actually got pretty poor - throwing silly passes and offloads, more weak defence, and too many penalties given for high shots. When the new rules about tackle height were announced, I thought Leeds had dodged a bullet - not because the guy is too tall, but rather because I have the impression that he doesn't have the attitude to be a top professional and adjust his game accordingly to suit the rules. I could be wrong, but I'm not surprised he hasn't set the world on fire yet. Nsemba seems a much better prospect.
You have a great squad, but I'm not at all surprised to hear that Walters isn't cutting it. He was massively over-hyped by Sky in his last season with us - Jon Wilkin even claimed he was our best player. I would have liked to have kept him at Leeds given our lack of size in the pack, but there are some reasons why you should be cautious with him.
Before Rowan Smith joined Leeds, Walters was knocking about the first team. He'd occasionally score a sensational try running off a good line out wide, but Agar evidently didn't trust him defensively and there were some really shocking defensive lapses around marker and on our goal line.
When RS came in he quickly promoted Widnes boys Walters and O'Connor to the first team. O'Connor hasn't missed a game since because he just works hard - maybe not the most skilled or physically blessed, but he's a good team player. Smith wanted to use Walters as a prop because we were short in that position, and he looked decent going forward, but the same defensive issues occasionally got highlighted. Personally, I preferred him spelled at prop - he scored fewer show pony tries but at the same time it meant he had to concentrate for shorter periods of time on the field. I get the sense that Smith wanted Walters to earn his place in the first team at the start of 2023, and he took umbrage that he wasn't an instant pick like O'Connor, and was also expected to play prop instead of second row.
He signed for Wigan just before Smith brought him back into the team. It was disappointing, and he scored a few more eye catching tries in the games that followed (I think he got away with bashing up a Saints player in the last game we won against them too). However, as the season wore on, his form actually got pretty poor - throwing silly passes and offloads, more weak defence, and too many penalties given for high shots. When the new rules about tackle height were announced, I thought Leeds had dodged a bullet - not because the guy is too tall, but rather because I have the impression that he doesn't have the attitude to be a top professional and adjust his game accordingly to suit the rules. I could be wrong, but I'm not surprised he hasn't set the world on fire yet. Nsemba seems a much better prospect.
He hasn't even struck the match. So do you think it's an attitude thing? Since he has been here everything seems half arsed. Don't know whether that is fair or not but he seems to lack effort.
I think as with every position in the side, you always need to make sure nobody is certain of a spot. I back Miski to bounce back and Keighran has shown flashes of what he can do but Eckersley and Douglas are good young players and in time it may well be the case that they start to pressure those first two for their spots. As and when that time comes Peet will need to be brave but for now I think Miski will be fine and get through this rough patch and Keighran will hopefully get a consistent run going towards the end of the season. It's always difficult to discuss the future when you're in a patch of poor form because it seems reactionary but it's only natural that you keep looking at ways in which you can progress/freshen up the side.
Statistically he's making good ground Walters but he just looks like a prop playing at second row at times. It's his concentration that worries me. He looks half asleep during games and has come up with some really silly errors. When you think of a 'Wigan forward' over the last 10-15 years, he doesn't strike you as one tbh but to give the lad some slack, his season has been so stop start and it must be difficult to get any sort of momentum going. He may get the opportunity to build some of that in the next few weeks because it does feel like Nsemba could do with a bit of a freshen up as well (which is totally understandable).
NickyKiss wrote:Statistically he's making good ground Walters but he just looks like a prop playing at second row at times. It's his concentration that worries me. He looks half asleep during games and has come up with some really silly errors. When you think of a 'Wigan forward' over the last 10-15 years, he doesn't strike you as one tbh but to give the lad some slack, his season has been so stop start and it must be difficult to get any sort of momentum going. He may get the opportunity to build some of that in the next few weeks because it does feel like Nsemba could do with a bit of a freshen up as well (which is totally understandable).
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