tad rhino wrote:you never played sport at a decent level obviously jim
That’s true but I must have missed you on the Rhinos team sheet…..?
It’s OK people parroting what the Sky pundits are saying. A Peacock, Maguire or Sculthorpe or Farrell might, to some extent, get away with a bout of petulance because they were amazing players. If we had a player as good as them now we’d be a much better team with or without some yelling. What makes the team successful, shouting at poor performance or having 5 England internationals in it? .
Most of these standards should be set in training. You have to practice to perform.
And the building trade is well renowned for high performance and no dysfunction in companies.
Joined: Feb 26 2002 Posts: 9576 Location: anywhere, literally...
I think the difference in how you and I see this matter Jim, is what you describe as a bout of petulance, I see as holding people accountable for their mistakes in a team sport. Shouting in sport is not necessarily the same as doing it in an office environment for example. Team Sportspeople are highly motivated by not letting their mates down, and without holding them to account when they do, you see a slip into accepted mediocrity like we are witnessing at Leeds, Hull FC and Castleford right now. All three clubs are capable of much better performances, and when the players (and coaches) are held to account they are more likely to improve the performance, this is simple management (something I have a lot of experience of).
Happy to debate, it's always respectful between us.
It's not how much talent you've got, it's what you do with it that counts.
Joined: Dec 19 2004 Posts: 24451 Location: in bed between halle berry and jennifer aniston
jim, I played professional football. do I need sarcasm saying I never played for the rhinos??? you don't do your job at elite level trust me, your team mates tell you. even at the level of semi pro its like that. the likes of burrow, webb, peacock and sinfield would dish it out
its no wonder we are so poor.nobody takes any responsibility. do they even care? doesnt look like it
tad rhino wrote:jim, I played professional football. do I need sarcasm saying I never played for the rhinos??? you don't do your job at elite level trust me, your team mates tell you. even at the level of semi pro its like that. the likes of burrow, webb, peacock and sinfield would dish it out
its no wonder we are so poor.nobody takes any responsibility. do they even care? doesnt look like it
There appears to be no accountability at the club and therefore responsibility lower down the ladder becomes almost non existent , our main man Mr Hetherington is deluded as in his recent interview saying the organisation is in a good position(not sure he will be saying that next year when season ticket sales are down and hospitality is not sold out ) and in my opinion our coach is tactically clueless and could not motivate a set of School kids
batleyrhino wrote:I think the difference in how you and I see this matter Jim, is what you describe as a bout of petulance, I see as holding people accountable for their mistakes in a team sport. Shouting in sport is not necessarily the same as doing it in an office environment for example. Team Sportspeople are highly motivated by not letting their mates down, and without holding them to account when they do, you see a slip into accepted mediocrity like we are witnessing at Leeds, Hull FC and Castleford right now. All three clubs are capable of much better performances, and when the players (and coaches) are held to account they are more likely to improve the performance, this is simple management (something I have a lot of experience of).
Happy to debate, it's always respectful between us.
Yeah I get where you're coming from, and I'm sure there are critical situations where some bullying type approach is effective and necessary (a game situation is a critical one). However the evidence is that long-term relationships are not built and supported this way, it's a tactical approach at best. You're also making a lot of assumptions in the above para, which we won't be able to debate on this forum!
I would agree that there are instances where a bit of friction and aggression between team mates might be necessary and healthy and natural, but I'd disagree that this is the secret sauce missing which would make Leeds more successful. Performance is a multi-factoral output of course.
Pretty much all the examples of past successful teams with this kind of internal friction are using examples of worldy players who have the platform and credibility to behave that way. In most cases if you try to hold an alpha male to account, you're more likely to get a smack in the mouth than sustainably increased performance. In many cases this behaviour will actually lead to breakdown of trust and introduce team dysfunction... but yeah this forum probably not the best place!
tad rhino wrote:jim, I played professional football. do I need sarcasm saying I never played for the rhinos??? you don't do your job at elite level trust me, your team mates tell you. even at the level of semi pro its like that. the likes of burrow, webb, peacock and sinfield would dish it out
its no wonder we are so poor.nobody takes any responsibility. do they even care? doesnt look like it
You're not the only person who has ever worked in a high-intensity environment where performance is demanded Tads, sports or not.
No responsibility? What is your evidence for that view? Frawley literally got dropped last game due to performance at Hull. Olpherts was shipped on before his contract ended. Loads of dead wood has been pruned out since RS came in, and I think he was right in just about every case - those players are either in Championship now or in teams at the bottom of the table (funnily enough, about where we were when they played for us...). Higher up responsibility: well we will see about RS, and GH seemed to admit himself recently that the "transition" wasn't handled well, but he seems too comfortable to me.
I don't see a side that doesn't care, we probably aren't going to agree here and I know I'm in the minority on here, fair enough. I'm sure there are some robust and honest conversations happening behind closed doors. I think the players and coaches care tremendously.
Where we're at is a main squad which probably isn't good enough to win super league anyway, hammered by injuries again (you can call that an excuse if you like, but I disagree, I would call it a reason), and with a relatively inexperienced head coach who is struggling to convince. Is it the squad? Is it the injuries? Is it the coach? Probably all three but to what degrees, who knows.
FGB wrote:With all due respect to Jim, I'm starting to think he might just be trolling on here and laughing his ass off at home as everyone gets reeled in.
Other recent examples off top of my head include: Louis Roberts a back row TNW too small to be a prop Riley Lumb too thin for SL
I mean I do have the odd smile but not trolling my friend.
Roberts is not a winger, he is a centre who has been asked to cover wing as least bad option. If anyone actually reads what I write, I said I could see Roberts developing as a back row - I don't see the pace or evasion required for a SL centre in him yet. He's like 22 we'll see - he may end up in Championship yet.
TNW - he's also young and will fill out, but right now he is too small for a regular SL prop. You think he's going to give us the go-forward and domination down the middle at this stage in his development? He should get some game time on the bench, he is a good prospect for the future.
Riley Lumb has literally just torn his hamstring half off trying to run through grown men. Yes, he is too lightly built QED. He will get stronger and as he does, he is a great prospect for the future, I like him lots.
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