The Reaper wrote:Curious what makes you think there’s more improvement left in you than us? Our attack didn’t look the best, but we made more chances than you did and even the one chance you made was just a moment of magic from an individual. As a unit I thought you never looked like scoring. We didn’t either really, but we did make a couple of chances and on another day could have scored a few. I’d put the lack of chances down to defence from both sides than attacks being that bad. You’ve got a few forwards to come back, likewise we were without Bell who’s probably been our best attacking player this year, and Paasi who is a wrecking ball. Blake too who whilst hasn’t been great, has looked to be improving and could grow as the year goes on. He’s certainly got the attributes to improve if his attitude is right. I can see plenty of improvement to come for both teams.
If you’re waiting for our defence to soften I wouldn’t hold your breath! We have conceded an average of 7 points per game over the 6 games, and almost half of the points we conceded have been when we were down to 12. It’s always going to take something special to open us up despite everybody thinking Hurrell and co are liabilities. In reality it doesn’t really happen. Thought we dealt with whatever you threw really comfortably, marked the likes of Field out of the game, didn’t allow Smith to do anything either and we also did a good job on French, the difference being he’s just a special player who can conjure something like he did.
I thought Saints played how Saints play. Tough through the middle, defended for their lives and I just don’t see that attack really changing because it’s been nothing more than workmanlike for a couple of years now. I’d have to see the stats but Saints seemed to make far less, errors, didn’t give as many penalties away and didn’t have a man sin binned and one sent off. I just don’t see how Saints make massive changes to that performance yesterday. It was the usual grinding effort and it just about got them home playing against 12 men for 25 minutes of the game and against a side who kept on committing self harm.
As for Wigan, cut out the errors, improve the discipline and that makes a huge difference straight away. You automatically improve keeping 13 on the field. The attack was off, with too many passes missing the mark and I think that has been the case all season outside of Penrith, with the players focus not being quite there. The pitches drying out will make a far bigger difference to Wigan than it will Saints also. Ultimately I just thought Saints were far closer to their best than Wigan were, so for us to get we close to the finishing line as we did gives me loads of confidence going forward. It won’t be easy for Wigan to turn Saints over in any game but yesterday didn’t make me think it’ll any bigger challenge than it was before the game. I actually thought Saints would be more dominant in the game going in to it.
Itchy Arsenal wrote:I totally agree on the errors and discipline points. We didn’t help ourselves and despite some great defending eventually something had to give. I think that we can play a lot better but not sure how much more Saints can offer from an attacking point of view. I’m a fan of Lomax but it’s obvious to see that his best days are behind him. He will show the odd glimpse of his past but they will be few and far between. I think that this applies to Farrell these days too. We need Farrell for his brilliant defence but his attacking threat is almost non existent these days. Still scratching my head on the low minutes of Leeming and Mago and for the life of me just don’t understand why Nsemba was on the bench if we were not going to play him. It will be interesting to see how those 3 go against Leyth.
Peets use of that 17th man is the only thing I ever feel like I can criticise during his time as head coach. If you’re putting a guy on the bench simply on the basis that you’ll give him minutes if the game is comfortable, you may as well put Hampshire on there and have him cover fullback, wing and halfback.
I can get the Leeming minutes though. Brad O’Neill was immense and I’d have wanted him on the field as well. Mago has had a great start to the season but I again can see the reasons behind his limited minutes. These games look a bit too quick for him sadly. He’s got an important part to play this season but if Peet gets a full squad to choose from, in a big game, I still think Mago will miss out.
Joined: Feb 01 2010 Posts: 3003 Location: Under New Springs bridge wit' rest of trolls
With all due respect to Farrell and Isa who've been tremendous servants to the club I'll be bitterly disappointed if Walters and Nsemba aren't our first choice 2nd row come the back end of the season
The Reaper wrote:Curious what makes you think there’s more improvement left in you than us? Our attack didn’t look the best, but we made more chances than you did and even the one chance you made was just a moment of magic from an individual. As a unit I thought you never looked like scoring. We didn’t either really, but we did make a couple of chances and on another day could have scored a few. I’d put the lack of chances down to defence from both sides than attacks being that bad. You’ve got a few forwards to come back, likewise we were without Bell who’s probably been our best attacking player this year, and Paasi who is a wrecking ball. Blake too who whilst hasn’t been great, has looked to be improving and could grow as the year goes on. He’s certainly got the attributes to improve if his attitude is right. I can see plenty of improvement to come for both teams.
If you’re waiting for our defence to soften I wouldn’t hold your breath! We have conceded an average of 7 points per game over the 6 games, and almost half of the points we conceded have been when we were down to 12. It’s always going to take something special to open us up despite everybody thinking Hurrell and co are liabilities. In reality it doesn’t really happen. Thought we dealt with whatever you threw really comfortably, marked the likes of Field out of the game, didn’t allow Smith to do anything either and we also did a good job on French, the difference being he’s just a special player who can conjure something like he did.
Yet you don't apply the same reasoning to this game with regards to possible improvement. Strange.
The interchange bench in general turned out to be a bit of a disaster for Wigan. Dupree comes on and gets sinbinned, Leeming makes two errors and is subbed again after 15 minutes, Mago again with limited minutes and looked to struggle with the pace and Nsemba wasn't used. I'd have to look at the stats but I'd be surprised if we even used all of the 8 interchanges as well. Fix that and take out the cards and we're in a better position straight away.
Ultimately there looks very little between the sides atm. Saints with Paasi to come back look like they may still have the edge in the forwards but Wigan's pace will surely come into play more as the season goes on.
This is just impressions from the game as I haven't had chance to watch it on TV yet.
It's a long time since I've come away from a defeat with such a feeling of optimism as I did this one. Before the game I asked that, win or lose, this was the game we started to consign the WCC to the history books and I think we did that. The intensity was up several levels from what it's been since that game and although we are clearly a good way off our best yet, that was always going to be the case playing a third of the game with only 12 men. I find it strange (as above) that Saints fans have spent the last few weeks saying that the only reason they lost against Salford was the red card yet seem unable to apply the same reasoning in this game! Maybe Saints are Wigan's Salford
The only area of concern remains our discipline. The reffing was too one sided for mine, especially in that early period where it seemed 6 agains where reserved only for Saints (I'd love to see the timings of the play the balls where he penalised Wigan and compare them to similar ones he didn't penalise Saints for) but it's still in our own hands to be better. Sort that out and we win that game, no doubt whatsoever.
I thought the 2 cards were the difference in this game, particularly coming at the back end of each half when fatigue is at its greatest and when we generally score tries. Both aspects were adversely affected. The fact that Saints only scored in the final minutes when we were gassed speaks volumes for me. The scoreline completely flatters them.
Onwards and upwards. Both teams will be there or thereabouts when the trophies are handed out. I just feel we'll have too much for them by that point should we meet then.
apollosghost wrote:With all due respect to Farrell and Isa who've been tremendous servants to the club I'll be bitterly disappointed if Walters and Nsemba aren't our first choice 2nd row come the back end of the season
Still not watched it back but thought Farrell was outstanding yesterday. He was everywhere.
RICHARDS IS SUPERMAN!!!!
Wire_91 wrote:its your first final in about 8 years and now you ravin and rantin about it F**k off, and ill be going old trafford tomoz cheering on the saints and ill be writing on this forum givin you loads of shi* when your drying you eyes and the wire fan will be here handing out the tissues in the thousands, thats if you do take that many fans cause now it looks like its your fans who have jumped on the band wagon now your in a final, this time last year there was only 1000 people in the jjb and now its fillin up cause youve won the league hahaha proper true supporters you are
MadDogg wrote:The interchange bench in general turned out to be a bit of a disaster for Wigan. Dupree comes on and gets sinbinned, Leeming makes two errors and is subbed again after 15 minutes, Mago again with limited minutes and looked to struggle with the pace and Nsemba wasn't used. I'd have to look at the stats but I'd be surprised if we even used all of the 8 interchanges as well. Fix that and take out the cards and we're in a better position straight away.
Ultimately there looks very little between the sides atm. Saints with Paasi to come back look like they may still have the edge in the forwards but Wigan's pace will surely come into play more as the season goes on.
The pitch was a bit heavy and I always think that negates Field and French as I think they are more suited to hard pitches.Mind you,you could play us in a swamp and still batter us.
As i am a boring barsteward i thought i would record our errors & discipline issues as i watched the game on the tele this morning. I felt it was yet again at an unacceptable level when at the game yesterday as it has been all season.
It is something we really need to be working on, as the periods when we behave and control the ball we where very competitive.
2 min - Byrne clear offside on kick 5 min - Field tackle in air 7 min - Wardle knock on (more forward pass imo) 10 min - French forward pass - terrible pass in general 11 min - 6 again Farrell holding down 11 min - 6 again Thompson second attempt, O'Neill prob should have given another one for holding down a couple of tackles later aswell. 14 min - O'Neill high tackle off the kick 16 min - Ellis high tackle 18 min - Field knock on 24 - penalty for offside Ellis - would have been a Field knock on otherwise 28 - Dupree leading with elbow - fair yellow imo 35 - Farrell knock on 45 - Leeming knock on 49 - Leeming knock on (rip by Clarke to be fair)
Notice how we have a 13 min spell without any errors or discipline issues - this is about the only time during the game i feel we are on top and coincidentally when we score our only points. Just thought that was worth pointing out.
62 - High tackle with shoulder Byrne - fair red card imo. 63 - Smith holding down 6 again 77 - Smith high tackle
To be fair we cleaned up a lot in our second half and was much more competitive generally for it, we just ran out of gas near the end, we gave ourselves a lot of extra work in that first half + the cards and it took its toll in the end.
I am also going to throw an error in for Peet, not playing Nsemba, even when we went down to 12 men for the last 18 mins was criminal in my eyes. That big body and fresh legs would have been invaluable at that moment, not to mention the different dimension he brings to the game that we needed.
If Peet can't trust a player's involvment in a high stakes period of the game when our backs are against the wall, then that player shouldn't be in the 17 man squad at all. Would he have trusted Hill more? If so he should have played him instead, even if i feel Nsemba earned his chance vs. Sheffield.
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