Joined: Feb 07 2005 Posts: 8649 Location: Home sweet home
Dita's Slot Meter wrote:Williams really has to start showing up in these type of games. He's the dictionary definition of a flat track bully.
For a marquee player, who is supposedly England's best half back, he shows absolutely no desire to grab a game by the throat and actually influence proceedings.
Yes, we are lacking in other areas, especially the other half back, but I expect and want far more from our supposed best player.
Totally agree with you..give me Lomax anyday..he's only here cos Wigan wouldn't cave in to his over inflated wage demands..earn your money or do one
Joined: Apr 09 2010 Posts: 14981 Location: The Moon
sir adrian morley wrote:Easy mate they want a scum v scum final
Probably true, few weeks back Sky were running a draw to give 3000 tickets away for the Grand final, then it disappeared and not seen anything to say why. Maybe it’s been decided it’s not a good look for Catalan to be in the show piece final.
Joined: Feb 23 2009 Posts: 2427 Location: Springfield
sir adrian morley wrote:Totally agree with you..give me Lomax anyday..he's only here cos Wigan wouldn't cave in to his over inflated wage demands..earn your money or do one
Williams has been trying his nuts off all season without a half back partner. Stick Drinkwater in any of the other top 6 teams and see how they get on.
'I've done things i'm not proud of. And the things i am proud of,.......well they're disgusting'
Having watched it back, I don’t think Thaler had a bad game at all. The two sin bins were from intervention from the video ref, and like it or not they are consistent. The frustration there, and we tried it on multiple occasions as did they, staying down to wait for the video ref to look at it. If you stay down, you’re injured, go for a HIA. Crowther did for the Walmsley one, but Lees, Ratchford and Sironen (think he was complaining about his neck though) didn’t.
The difference between them and us in the “decision winning” areas is they are really effective at getting tangled in tackles. From the channel 4 coverage you can hear Thaler on multiple occasions saying “trapped in”. But, why would you trap in a player when you’ve won the ruck? Why when you’re getting up to try and get a quick play the ball would you deliberately trap in a defender? That is my frustration with the officials, I’m not certain that they truly understand the game. Not the black and white rules, but the intricacies that the elite players try to manipulate to get that extra 1%.
We had it with Charnley, he was superb at winning penalties. Often making a complete holy show of trying to get up and deliberately trapping arms and legs in. It’s learned behaviour, but it just seems that we don’t learn it.
The RFL should be looking for some coaching from ex-players and coaches, not to look at the black and white offences, but those in the grey. The context of the game often is the indicator.
It’s the same with the 6 again rule. I think there was a period in the second half where we got three in our favour but all on the first tackle. That is coached in. Slow it down, don’t let us build momentum and just defend one more tackle than allow us to roll upfield. Referees should know better, it’s borderline a professional foul. And that isn’t just St Helens that do that, it’s all of those teams and players who a) fully understand the rules and b) can think clearly in the chaos. In the same circumstance, we lose the ruck and end up giving away the penalty by shooting off the line as quickly as we can to try and correct the problem (see the Crowther and Bullock penalties yesterday).
It’s frustrating, but that’s the difference between the best and the rest. It’s evident in the use of the sun bin time too. We kicked a penalty, messed around with players not getting back behind the play the ball and delaying the restart and wasted 30 seconds by not binding the scrum and calling time off, that’s probably 2:30/3 minutes worth of 10 without one of their middle men. Complete mindlessness. Can’t cope in the heat of the battle, leadership void and no game sense either on the pitch or those on the sidelines sending messages on.
Joined: Oct 06 2005 Posts: 2884 Location: Warrington
We have no players with game smarts that’s for sure. In our quality teams of the past you had a few players with such intelligence; Briers, Hodgson, Monaghan and even Morley had nous. This lot are a bit thick.
Saints made many breaks than we did, and the score could have been far wider. The squad that DP had put together wasn't good enough, we need to fix the deficiencies and move forward. Hardly an unexpected result, but watching the NRL GF this morning, the quality of SL is now so, so poor in comparison.
Barbed Wire wrote:Having watched it back, I don’t think Thaler had a bad game at all. The two sin bins were from intervention from the video ref, and like it or not they are consistent. The frustration there, and we tried it on multiple occasions as did they, staying down to wait for the video ref to look at it. If you stay down, you’re injured, go for a HIA. Crowther did for the Walmsley one, but Lees, Ratchford and Sironen (think he was complaining about his neck though) didn’t.
The difference between them and us in the “decision winning” areas is they are really effective at getting tangled in tackles. From the channel 4 coverage you can hear Thaler on multiple occasions saying “trapped in”. But, why would you trap in a player when you’ve won the ruck? Why when you’re getting up to try and get a quick play the ball would you deliberately trap in a defender? That is my frustration with the officials, I’m not certain that they truly understand the game. Not the black and white rules, but the intricacies that the elite players try to manipulate to get that extra 1%.
We had it with Charnley, he was superb at winning penalties. Often making a complete holy show of trying to get up and deliberately trapping arms and legs in. It’s learned behaviour, but it just seems that we don’t learn it.
The RFL should be looking for some coaching from ex-players and coaches, not to look at the black and white offences, but those in the grey. The context of the game often is the indicator.
It’s the same with the 6 again rule. I think there was a period in the second half where we got three in our favour but all on the first tackle. That is coached in. Slow it down, don’t let us build momentum and just defend one more tackle than allow us to roll upfield. Referees should know better, it’s borderline a professional foul. And that isn’t just St Helens that do that, it’s all of those teams and players who a) fully understand the rules and b) can think clearly in the chaos. In the same circumstance, we lose the ruck and end up giving away the penalty by shooting off the line as quickly as we can to try and correct the problem (see the Crowther and Bullock penalties yesterday).
It’s frustrating, but that’s the difference between the best and the rest. It’s evident in the use of the sun bin time too. We kicked a penalty, messed around with players not getting back behind the play the ball and delaying the restart and wasted 30 seconds by not binding the scrum and calling time off, that’s probably 2:30/3 minutes worth of 10 without one of their middle men. Complete mindlessness. Can’t cope in the heat of the battle, leadership void and no game sense either on the pitch or those on the sidelines sending messages on.
Re the six again I agree, whats the point on the first tackle? Just give a pen
Joined: Apr 09 2010 Posts: 14981 Location: The Moon
Barbed Wire wrote:Having watched it back, I don’t think Thaler had a bad game at all. The two sin bins were from intervention from the video ref, and like it or not they are consistent. The frustration there, and we tried it on multiple occasions as did they, staying down to wait for the video ref to look at it. If you stay down, you’re injured, go for a HIA. Crowther did for the Walmsley one, but Lees, Ratchford and Sironen (think he was complaining about his neck though) didn’t.
The difference between them and us in the “decision winning” areas is they are really effective at getting tangled in tackles. From the channel 4 coverage you can hear Thaler on multiple occasions saying “trapped in”. But, why would you trap in a player when you’ve won the ruck? Why when you’re getting up to try and get a quick play the ball would you deliberately trap in a defender? That is my frustration with the officials, I’m not certain that they truly understand the game. Not the black and white rules, but the intricacies that the elite players try to manipulate to get that extra 1%.
We had it with Charnley, he was superb at winning penalties. Often making a complete holy show of trying to get up and deliberately trapping arms and legs in. It’s learned behaviour, but it just seems that we don’t learn it.
The RFL should be looking for some coaching from ex-players and coaches, not to look at the black and white offences, but those in the grey. The context of the game often is the indicator.
It’s the same with the 6 again rule. I think there was a period in the second half where we got three in our favour but all on the first tackle. That is coached in. Slow it down, don’t let us build momentum and just defend one more tackle than allow us to roll upfield. Referees should know better, it’s borderline a professional foul. And that isn’t just St Helens that do that, it’s all of those teams and players who a) fully understand the rules and b) can think clearly in the chaos. In the same circumstance, we lose the ruck and end up giving away the penalty by shooting off the line as quickly as we can to try and correct the problem (see the Crowther and Bullock penalties yesterday).
It’s frustrating, but that’s the difference between the best and the rest. It’s evident in the use of the sun bin time too. We kicked a penalty, messed around with players not getting back behind the play the ball and delaying the restart and wasted 30 seconds by not binding the scrum and calling time off, that’s probably 2:30/3 minutes worth of 10 without one of their middle men. Complete mindlessness. Can’t cope in the heat of the battle, leadership void and no game sense either on the pitch or those on the sidelines sending messages on.
Charnley was eventually caught out with the antics and was getting nothing for it but just slowing us down, we have no game plan beyond fast ruck speed so when that’s not working we have no plan B.
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